A quote from RBG

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Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

A quote from RBG

Post by Minyan Man » 21 Sep 2020, 17:05

Within the past year I've been reading, watching documentaries and interviews about Ruth Bater Ginsburg.
What an interesting lady. In one of her interviews she talked about how she got married, had children then
decided to go to law school. She finished first in her class & after graduation had difficulty getting a job.
This was the 1950's & early '60's. The interviewer asked her why it was so hard for her to get a job & she
said it was because she was Jewish, married & a mother.

This got me thinking about my own life & how privileged it has been. I have never been first in my class. But,
I've always been able to find a job. Not because I have extraordinary talents or skills. But, because I'm white,
hard working & willing to take any job to earn a living.

The thought came to me: have I ever been turned down or denied a job because of my religion?
There was only one time that I recall. My company had an opening in a remote factory that I applied for. It
would of been a nice promotion, with more money in a warm state. I went to Florida for an interview & met
with the Plant Manager. About 5 minutes into the interview, he asked what I did for fun on the weekends. I
proceeded to tell him about being in the LDS church & how busy we usually were with that. Needless to say
he wasn't impressed & I realized that I wasn't going to be consider for the job. I also realized I would never
be happy working for this guy. This made me curious: has anyone on this forum ever has a similar experience?
Is there a professional downside for having a membership in the church?

I never revealed my membership in any other job interviews again.

RIP RBG

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Ilovechrist77
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Joined: 08 Nov 2011, 21:42

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 21 Sep 2020, 18:32

I've never heard of Ruth Bater Ginsburg. So far, it hasn't happened with me, but it has for my parents. It had nothing to with employment, though. It had to do with my parents trying to get a new place when they were young, if I remember their story correctly. I think it was a mobile home that they were trying to apply for him. The woman manager had to ask some questions to make sure they weren't going to be throwing some wild parties, and my parents told her that they didn't party because they were Mormons. The woman's countenance dropped and told her they couldn't have the mobile home. I might gotten what kind of my place they were apply wrong, but, according to my parents, this did happen. I used to be a very black-and-white person when it came to religious prejudice, but, with how my faith has grown with my faith journey, not so much now. If that that kind of intolerance brings persecution, I don't believe that's right under any circumstances.

NoahVail
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Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 22:03

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by NoahVail » 21 Sep 2020, 21:53

I'm in Florida and though there have been times and places I've been mistreated for my faith (by evangelicals, always evangelicals) it's never cost me work.

If I had to offer any feedback it would be the opposite. I have lots of history of great work relationships with Evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal and AoG members (along with Catholics, SDA & the other easy to get on with Christian faiths). Often, these were openly Christian-centric businesses/orgs and my relationships lasted a decade or more. I never felt less than welcome.

One thing that helped me, personally, is that I was Evangelical in a previous life, so the worship and lingo are all familiar to me. Heck, if we wanted to step back one more life, I was raised Catholic (& school) and still remember all the liturgy. You can take the boy out of the church but...

NoahVail
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Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 22:03

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by NoahVail » 21 Sep 2020, 22:10

Sidebar: I'd like to revisit a bit of history.

All thru the 1990s and 2000s, I watched overtly hostile, anti-Mormon bigotry grow and grow in Evangelical communities. People like Walter Martin (pre-1980s) and later Hank Hanegraaff & Bill Keller built entire industries, dedicated to demeaning, degrading & discrediting Church members, Jehovah Witnesses and even 7 Day Adventists (pre-1980 inc Catholics & post 2000 added Muslims). Theological colleges offered courses in Mormon bashing. The pressure to demonize the Church was everywhere in evangelicalism.

And then came the 2008 GOP primary races. Mitt Romney was the front-runner. Out came Evangelical bigots by the score, all super comfortable with their Klan-like bigotry - as if it wasn't twisted and grotesque. That attracted a LOT of sunshine and what followed was tons of overdue shaming of people who'd earned it for years. They may have grumbled but they did largely crawl back into their holes.

From what I can see, Evangelical bigotry never bounced back. Well, at least not targeting us.
Bigotry toward Muslims is still a thing due to it's much wider base - which includes plenty of Church members.

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by Roy » 22 Sep 2020, 10:12

I work in the casino industry. Once about ten years ago the head of the casino was replaced by a new boss and we had to come into his office to re-interview for our jobs. I do not think that anyone did not keep their job from this interview so functionally it was more of a high pressure get to know you session. The new boss noted my missionary service from my application and asked me if I wouldn't be more comfortable working in a different industry. :eh:

On the other hand, I have benefited from LDS connections and networking to get me some of my fist jobs starting out.

I watched the RBG biopic called "On the basis of sex" and it is pretty shocking the things that women could not do only 50-60 years ago. Some states did not allow women to have mortgages or credit cards in their name without a male co-signer. It would be nice if we could point to our church as being ahead of the curve on equality for women. In some small ways maybe we were but in general we were as sexist as the rest of the country. Maybe we were worse in some ways because we couched our sexism in doctrine and divine laws. More recently we are taking baby steps like letting women pray in GC, wear pants to church without official sanction, and removing overtly sexual language in the temple that had set up a tiered husband and wife relationship with the husband at the head. There is still much ground to cover before true equality is reached.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Re: A quote from RBG

Post by Heber13 » 22 Sep 2020, 11:11

NoahVail wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 22:10
And then came the 2008 GOP primary races. Mitt Romney was the front-runner. Out came Evangelical bigots by the score
I was thinking about Mitt Romney as well. There were lots of comments like "The US isn't ready for a Mormon President" ...which is hard to understand why people think that way.

I've heard similar comments about Joe Biden being Irish Catholic.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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SamBee
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Re: A quote from RBG

Post by SamBee » 23 Nov 2020, 16:00

Heber13 wrote:
22 Sep 2020, 11:11
NoahVail wrote:
21 Sep 2020, 22:10
And then came the 2008 GOP primary races. Mitt Romney was the front-runner. Out came Evangelical bigots by the score
I was thinking about Mitt Romney as well. There were lots of comments like "The US isn't ready for a Mormon President" ...which is hard to understand why people think that way.

I've heard similar comments about Joe Biden being Irish Catholic.
Or even JFK. A lot of the charges against JFK were much the same as the ones brought against Romney, i.e. he would be instructed what to do by the leader of his church and it would be a Trojan presidency. Kennedy didn't introduce a Catholic tyranny and there is no evidence Romney would have introduced one. Not sure how "Irish' Biden really is though.

A friend of mine did get anti-Mormon abuse because of the Romney thing. A newspaper in this country printed pictures of the garments and he was pestered about it by bigoted workmates. I pointed out that if this kind of thing had happened to a Sikh or a Jew with their clothing, it would have been dealt with immediately...

It is not a good idea to announce your religion in the workplace here. There is a growing anti-religious bigotry, especially among younger people. It usually consists of all sorts of assumptions about religionists, is stated with authority, but does not come from a place of personal experience or knowledge. Some of the things I hear about LDS are bizarre.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by SamBee » 23 Nov 2020, 16:04

Roy wrote:
22 Sep 2020, 10:12
It would be nice if we could point to our church as being ahead of the curve on equality for women. In some small ways maybe we were but in general we were as sexist as the rest of the country. Maybe we were worse in some ways because we couched our sexism in doctrine and divine laws.
Always remember that Utah was one of the earliest places in the world to give women the vote, back when it could claim to be a mostly LDS state. That counts for something. Utah did so long before some supposedly more progressive places including parts of Western Europe, California and New England. (Strangely enough, New Zealand - another place you might not expect - was one of the first as well.)
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Roy
Posts: 6217
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: A quote from RBG

Post by Roy » 23 Nov 2020, 17:08

SamBee wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 16:04
Always remember that Utah was one of the earliest places in the world to give women the vote, back when it could claim to be a mostly LDS state. That counts for something.
Yes, there are those early glimmers of equality that we can hang on to. We have come a long way since and still have a long way yet to go. I am excited to see the world that my children and grandchildren will inherit.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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