Interesting High Priest Group Meeting

[silentstruggle]

So, in a discussion in HP on Sunday, we were talking about Honesty and were having a discussion about 'Truth'.

The instructor listed some 'kinds' of truth on the board and went on to discuss each kind. There was a discussion about how truth changes over time.

One of our HPs noted that, under current church culture, we as church members are left with no means of resolving the dissonance created with the presentation of 'truth' that does not agree. He gave an example of seeing the millions of years of evolution when gazing at the Grand Canyon and contrasting that to a six by 24-hour day view of creation that many Christians accept. He said that because we give young people no means of resolving those issues, the result is what he terms a false choice, i.e., giving up the gospel. He said we need those tools, i.e. ability to understand as metaphor and that we are losing young people in droves because of this.

Another comment was that it is a mistake to just confuse repetition of something with the truth, i.e, just because we hear something over and over again week after week does not make it true.

I had a few things to add about perception and the truth. I quoted George K. from Seinfeld, who said "It's not a lie, if you believe it!", which is corny and funny, but has a great underlying concept about the role of belief in one's perception of truth. I talked about honesty with ourselves and how our ego wants insulation, so we lie to ourselves (and believe it). I asked how many men in the room did not think they were young, good looking, ate right and were in shape to drive the point home. There were some giggles and a lot of nods.

I was so amazed to hear this kind of discussion out of our normally sleepy, intellectually lazy HP group.

Of course, there was a former bishop who, I don't think is bright enough to understand the discussion, who was having fits because of our 'departure' from the Gospel Essential manual. He kept asking things like 'What page are we on?" I think it's silly to think that a four page basics lesson written at a third grade reading level is enough material for any teacher to spend an hour on with High Priests without bringing in additional thoughts.

Anyway, there ended up being quite a division. I made sure I thanked the teacher for one of the best lessons in ages. It was good I did, because he was getting a lot of other feedback.

[SilentDawning]

Thanks for sharing this. Loved your perceptions of the Bishop who kept trying to drag the discussion back to the manual. Deviating from the manual is one of my favorite pastimes in the Church. Learning to rock with boat without sinking the ship is a wonderful thing to learn to do.

Sounds like you need to collect up the intellectually stimulating High Priests and get them together for a meeting off-site just to really discuss openly. And don't invite that Bishop!

[Old-Timer]

What a wonderful discussion. I'm fortunate that we have that general type discussion fairly often in my ward.

[Strawberry99]

Great to hear about such a deep discussion! Tackling tough topics like evolution is key to keeping younger members engaged. Stepping beyond the manual can truly touch hearts—thanks for sharing this inspiring moment!

[Minyan Man]

I miss that type of discussion & lesson. With the combined PH lessons, there are very few HP in the class on Sunday.
To be totally honest. I am one of them. I especially avoid the class where we form groups. We read a "canned" lesson or talk.
We discuss the "canned" questions. Elect a spokesman. Present our "canned" conclusions.

There is very little discussion about what the PH is today. There is very little discussions about our duties & responsibilities.
Or, visiting & blessing the sick, etc.

[AmyJ]

I miss that type of discussion & lesson. With the combined PH lessons, there are very few HP in the class on Sunday.
To be totally honest. I am one of them. I especially avoid the class where we form groups. We read a "canned" lesson or talk.
We discuss the "canned" questions. Elect a spokesman. Present our "canned" conclusions.

There is very little discussion about what the PH is today. There is very little discussions about our duties & responsibilities.
Or, visiting & blessing the sick, etc.

The standardization aka "canning" of the lesson and questions is the jurisdiction of correlation and "getting onto the same page".

I don't know of any scriptures that specifically instruct how men (as a priesthood responsibility) into "mourning with" and "mentoring each other". My assumption is that there were enough men in previous generations active in the community to innately do so (to the degree it was happening). With the combining of the EQ and HP, the larger gatherings become more impersonal (possibly decreasing peer to peer relationships). Shifting the branding/expectation of home teachers to "ministering teachers" with a "whenever and however" component also decreased expectations of a connection point (which was an opportunity to mourn with and mentor when it was tailored to the individuals). This all matters a lot because suicide statistics show that for men past age 15, the suicide rate per 100,000 individuals is 3x to 4x that of women who are in the same age category.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide

We need to talk about what our men need so we don't lose the men who define themselves of "worthless" commit suicide and get stuck in suicide idealization shame cycles (and are likely to mostly accidentally emotionally abuse wives and children as part of that process). If for no other reason then men who are on the brink of killing themselves are not interested in being accessible priesthood holders and will do a lousy job of being church leaders and administrators (so the church organization's enlightened self-interest). Also, I am not sure that the church defines an active celestial marriage as one where one of the partners has passed on (probably prematurely). However, the support these men likely need will be mentorship they can access, and respect for their accomplishments and thought processes. What a program would look like run by the church that would draw these men and be useful for them - I don't know. I think that Pathways and the "Self-Reliance" courses were kinda sorta designed to see if it would do the job (as was the addition support groups).

If people were dumb enough/wise enough to leave me in charge of getting the committee together to make change in this area - I would probably try to see if a rotating mini-class could be created for men during priesthood that functioned as a deeper dive into topics at the intersection of men's belonging needs / scriptures / and a topic. I would set up the first meeting as a "gathering point" to introduce the group to this concept and each other, and maybe have a conversation on the topics they need. I would also be prepared having scanned male counselor's topic lists/themes they talk about coming from their male clients. NOTE: I took off my "feminine hat" (which I wear very lightly) to compassionately think through what men in my life have told me, talked about, and what they needed (when a kick in the butt wasn't an option that I could give).

Women kinda sorta do this organically with women that they know (including in Relief Society) as part of the work they do to "nurture" - themselves, their families, their communities.