New Ward, New Bishop

[Roy]

We have two wards in our city and about a third of our city is zoned to attend a church building in a smaller community about 10 miles away. Interesting tangent that the LDS church can supplement this smaller city's ward by forcing people to drive an extra 10 miles each way to attend church on Sunday. Anyway, the two wards in our city that share a building have been struggling and it was ultimately decided to disband our ward and fold it into the other ward.

This means that the ward is somewhat larger and this has made it easier for us to be unnoticed and relatively unbothered in our smattering of church attendance. This also means that we have a new bishop and he recently reached out to our family to meet with my newly turned 17 year old son. We gave my son the option of having one of us go in with him but he opted to go alone. I prepped him for what I assumed would be mostly TR questions.

The actual interview actually turned out to be more of a "get to know you chat" than I had given the bishop credit for. In talking to my son afterwards he shared with me that the bishop told him that the Word of Wisdom is a commandment only given the members of the church to set us apart from the world and there is no sin for non-members to partake in these things. That seemed like a fairly novel approach. What truly blew me away was when the bishop told my 17 year old that religious proselyting missions aren't for everyone. (my son is on the autism spectrum - so that may enter into what the bishop said)

I'm hopeful that this indicates a more compassionate, more member centric local ward administration.

[TinSoldier]

Sounds promising so far. I sincerely hope your experience in your new ward remains positive.

[Roy]

Bishop started F&T meeting by saying emotionally that his former bishop and two good friends from his previous ward have left the church (I thought at first that someone had died by how emotional he was getting). He framed it as how we all need to be careful because if it can happen to these fine individuals, it can happen to anybody. Still, this is yet another data point that my new bishop may be a little more compassionate on individuals going through a faith crisis.

[AmyJ]

<shrugs>

My husband is practicing being more nuanced, teaching our youngest how to be a more nuanced community member, and we are in the "differentiation" phase (mostly) again/still. He made conversational space for those who don't necessarily believe in Jesus Christ but do believe in "Faith (in outside of themselves), Hope, and Charity" in Sunday School 2 Sundays ago [referencing my faith transition]
NOTE: I am glad that he put my faith transition in such a common ground way because that means that he sees it that way (finally). I am uneasy about "church activities 2024" because people might remember what he said and judge me if I was to show up. I "show up" with my boundaries where I decide to do so - so I can totally do the work to show up in those activities if I decide to do so - it's just a tad more daunting.

There are a lot of victories in those statements though.

I am genuinely happy that my husband is going back to church and doing faithful practices to sustain himself instead of leaving it up to chance, or creating "emotional labor" for me to figure out what he needs and prompting/motivating him to get it.

"It could happen to anybody" is still fear-mongering in my book though:)

[Roy]

"It could happen to anybody" is still fear-mongering in my book though:)

Right. I think that active people need to frame it in such a way that Satan is behind people falling away. I take it as a small victory that, in these particular examples, the individuals that experienced a faith transition were described as wonderful, salt of the earth people.

[SilentDawning]

This sounds like a compassionate person who has emotions that can be touched. Hopefully he is more on the Love spectrum than the Obedience spectrum. Obedience bishops can make your life really tough.

This reminds me of when I was active. I had a vision of everyone being active, of all metrics strong, and felt a constant undercurrent of frustration with church service since none of this ever seemed attainable. I now realize that it ISN'T attainable, and my frustration and resulting judgmentalism of people who wouldn't tow the line was unfounded. Hopefully your Bishop has also crossed that threshold.

[Minyan Man]

For me personally, the Bishop is not the only element that sets the tone for any given ward.
You can have a Bishop that is the perfect example of what a Priesthood holder should represent.
And the rest of the Ward goes in the opposite direction.

We've lived in the same Ward for over 50+ years. We've seen good & bad examples on both sides.
I've wondered how the membership of my Ward has judged me over the years.
Life is interesting.

[SilentDawning]

They are probably judgmental toward you. Such is the trend among very orthodox members -- myself included when I was committed.

I got a feel for how the leadership views me when a former home teacher of mine came over to see me. He is a very loving person, and he told me he wasn't pleased about what the leadership would say about me in their leadership meetings. I pressed him to tell me what they said, but he clammed up, so I never knew. But it was probably negative about how I'm a High Priest and am not committed.

I was very judgmental when I was fully committed. Judgmental toward people who wouldn't make sacrifices to do their calling or didn't function when called. Sometimes even negative when they refused a calling. I was very hard hearted toward the poor at certain times as well. There was one sister that comes to mind who, in my view, was not the fastest bunny in the hutch. She was self-sufficient financially until something unusual would happen (car repairs, medical bills) and would then go the church for financial assistance. I remember sitting in a meeting with her and the Bishop after I did a needs analysis and listening to her go through, line by line, everything we thought she could do to be more self-reliant. She had a reason why she couldn't embrace each suggestion we had. You said I should do this, but I can't do that for this reasons, You said I should do this other thing, and I can't do that for this reason, etcetera. It was a rapid fire rebuttal of everything we suggested that she do -- such as move closer to her work so she could walk, and then go down to one car.

Eventually a new Bishop cut her off, and so she moved into a different Ward.

Anyway, I get sidetracked. Bottom line, I felt it was her own fault she was poor -- and recently read that is precisely the way we should NOT think about the poor. It's as if God knows that the poor are often poor due to their own outlook on life, and doesn't judge them for it.

If I ever get active again, and am in leadership, I will be a MUCH less judgmental and kind-hearted person. I will have low expectations for the behavior of others and the overall success of the church in terms of metrics (% of TR holders wth current TR's, activity rates, prospective elders, ministering statistics). For years, all that stole my inner peace -- no longer.

[Rqatkins]

They are probably judgmental toward you. Such is the trend among very orthodox members -- myself included when I was committed.

I got a feel for how the leadership views me when a former home teacher of mine came over to see me. He is a very loving person, and he told me he wasn't pleased about what the leadership would say about me in their leadership meetings. I pressed him to tell me what they said, but he clammed up, so I never knew. But it was probably negative about how I'm a High Priest and am not committed.

I was very judgmental when I was fully committed. Judgmental toward people who wouldn't make sacrifices to do their calling or didn't function when called. Sometimes even negative when they refused a calling. I was very hard hearted toward the poor at certain times as well. There was one sister that comes to mind who, in my view, was not the fastest bunny in the hutch. She was self-sufficient financially until something unusual would happen (car repairs, medical bills) and would then go the church for financial assistance. I remember sitting in a meeting with her and the Bishop after I did a needs analysis and listening to her go through, line by line, everything we thought she could do to be more self-reliant. She had a reason why she couldn't embrace each suggestion we had. You said I should do this, but I can't do that for this reasons, You said I should do this other thing, and I can't do that for this reason, etcetera. It was a rapid fire rebuttal of everything we suggested that she do -- such as move closer to her work so she could walk, and then go down to one car.

Eventually a new Bishop cut her off, and so she moved into a different Ward.

Anyway, I get sidetracked. Bottom line, I felt it was her own fault she was poor -- and recently read that is precisely the way we should NOT think about the poor. It's as if God knows that the poor are often poor due to their own outlook on life, and doesn't judge them for it.

If I ever get active again, and am in leadership, I will be a MUCH less judgmental and kind-hearted person. I will have low expectations for the behavior of others and the overall success of the church in terms of metrics (% of TR holders wth current TR's, activity rates, prospective elders, ministering statistics). For years, all that stole my inner peace -- no longer.

As a Bishop myself, I appreciate this thread overall. Love should always come first. Obedience is a learned byproduct of testimony building and our reason to be here on earth. We all go at our own pace.

When we are fully committed to Striving to be obedient, then we progress. I reserve judgement in all things based on that individual. We have guidelines to follow, to set a standard (which are there for a reason) but there is flexibility more and more in the church to understand and follow the spirit of the law while striving for obedience.

In questions of welfare, I can see why the bishop you mentioned stopped giving or refused assistance. Her reaction and lack of humility, based on your description, helps me understand the “why” of that bishops choice. Her moving wards after also shows a level of pride and unwillingness to accept the decision.
Fast offerings are church members donations from the local area (Ward and Stake) and should be used with inspired discretion. It is not a “right” to receive assistance just because you ask. Many considerations need to be taken before financial assistance is given out.

When a member is humble, when they have no other way out and when it is temporary…then finances are used.

Without more nuanced info, I can’t personally say what should have been done.

In regards to financial assistance that members willingness to listen pays a major part.

[Roy]

Her reaction and lack of humility, based on your description, helps me understand the “why” of that bishops choice. Her moving wards after also shows a level of pride and unwillingness to accept the decision.

Welcome Bishop Rqatkins,

I observe that a lack of humility is one of the cardinal sins for a member to have concerning church/ward leadership. For this reason, my efforts to stayLDS have included presenting myself as struggling with my faith and testimony. I am a work in progress and growing and changing. I honor and respect the church leadership in their roles and accept that they have some level of authority and stewardship over me.

I observe that church leaders expect to be treated with deference like how you might act with a superior officer. I think treating them as an equal with equal knowledge and access to God as I might have would be considered a lack of humility at best or a spirit of apostacy at worst. I think that this lack of humility and/or remorse becomes one of the primary ingredients in excommunications. That is the general sense that I have on how things work in the ward and bishop's office.

StayLDS however, functions much like a support group. All of us have experiences and perspectives that are equally worthy and valid. We share and are mutually supported in the sharing.

I hope, Bishop Rqatkins, that you can also have a spirit of humility within this group. Do you have any questions, concerns, or experiences that you would like to share? What brings you here? Perhaps, it would help to start with an introduction and you can tell the group about yourself.