Stake Conference this past weekend

[Minyan Man]

We had Stake Conference this last weekend. Fortunately, the Stake provided a zoom broadcast to those
who could not attend. On the program, a young teenage girl was asked to give a talk & bear her testimony.
She talked about how her parents taught her to pray about anything & sometimes her prayers were answered.
One time she prayed about wanting help to find her lost toy & God answered her prayer.

I have no problem with a young child talking about her experiences & the lesson they learn in that experience.
IMO, there should be a balance with the lessons being taught like this. Maybe someone could have talked about
not receiving an answer to their prayer. Then talking about how they are dealing with the consequences of not
receiving an answer. Answers don't always come by kneeling in prayer or reading scriptures. Answers can come by:
- talking to a Doctor.
- talking to a friend.
- talking to a someone going through a similar experience. (support groups, etc.)
- walking through the woods.

I think the church is missing out by not inviting members who really had to work through serious problems that
affected their lives for years. Maybe the answers never came. What lesson was learned then? (If any)

Some member are going to think that if I don't receive an answer to my prayers, then there is something wrong with me.
I think this was a missed opportunity.

[nibbler]

I missed our stake conference. Well I wouldn't say I missed it. Comedy cliché #349 for the day. Try the veal.

It's been quite some time since I've prayed, or at least prayed the way I used to pray.

Some member are going to think that if I don't receive an answer to my prayers, then there is something wrong with me.

We may never come right out and teach people that conclusion in a lesson but it's not rare for people to come away with those sort of conclusions. All the talk at church about being more obedient to receive blessings is going to have that effect. It's not a far walk for someone that doesn't feel blessed to conclude that it's because they're not obedient or righteous enough to receive that blessing.

To add to that, feeling blessed is probably more of a state of mind than it is a tangible measurement of something external going on in your life. A person that has it all can feel like they aren't blessed and a person with nothing can feel blessed. It can create a feedback loop. Someone that feels like they're missing something in life concludes that they're missing out because they're not good enough, which pushes them further down into that feeling like they're missing out.

I think the church is missing out by not inviting members who really had to work through serious problems that
affected their lives for years. Maybe the answers never came. What lesson was learned then? (If any)

We don't really get that half of the story at church. There's almost a cultural pressure to put on a good face or to keep up an appearance. Again, I don't think the doctrine of more obedient equals more blessings does us any favors. If you're openly sad, depressed, express faults or problems in your life, etc. the prosperity gospel can lead people to conclude that there must be something morally wrong with you. No one wants to come across like that to their tribe, so we only get the good half of the stories.

I do remember there being several stories during this most recent general conference of people dying of cancer or otherwise dying early and relying on faith. There weren't many specifics, often the, "just have faith" or, "remember Jesus" answers feel like and empty platitude. In the stories shared during conference there was also an undertone of if you have faith tragic events wouldn't effect you.

Sadness is real. It's a part of the healing process. Couching it as a lack of faith or lack of perspective pushes us right back toward that toxic positivity that can ultimately delay true healing. How do people know when someone needs help when we're all expected to put on a good face?

[DarkJedi]

I also "missed" our most recent stake conference, and there was no remote view option (new SP is old school). I might have watched if I could have watched at home, and if asked I would say as much (but I'm not asked).

I did have a recent conversation with my son on this topic. We think the church is so invested in the "true happiness can only come from the church" that they can't have messages from this who struggle because we're not all unhappy. And of course, those of us who live in areas where we are true minorities (.5% of the county I live in -essentially my ward - is Mormon) see and interact with the happy Catholics, Jews, Methodists, atheists, etc., every single day.

My wife did attend stake conference, including the leadership session and the Saturday adult session. It appears to have followed the same pattern as past ones and probably what they're like everywhere. Speakers are mostly dyed-in-the-wool TBM types, with a youth speaker (probably talking about how they are preparing for a mission), and maybe a recent convert telling their story. The latter is often gone before the next conference. Not my cup of tea (so to speak).

[Minyan Man]

In my opinion, the church set the formula for how prayers are answered with the Joseph Smith story of the first vision.
- A young man (or woman) goes to the sacred grove to pray & ask God a question. (Which church is true?)
- God answers his (or her) prayer.
- Then we send Missionaries to preach the gospel & challenge investigators to be baptized.
- We wait a week or two & God gives us an answer.
- We can't be surprised when a child loses a toy then prays & he (or she) expects an answer right now.

Then, as adults we go through adult issues or problems & it seems to take longer to resolve or receive answers.
For example:
- A child has a terminal illness or injury.
- Couples get divorced.
- Missionaries die in the field.
- The list goes on.

Some of us never seem to receive an answer.
Some of us never even receive comfort in our grief.
Jesus even on the cross asks "why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46)

The innocence of a child is nice & inspirational but, it isn't always enough as an adult.
For me personally, it would be helpful to hear how others who have gone through difficult situations as an adult, and
come through the other side: to know how did they do that?

It has been sites like this that have given me a window to the other side.

[nibbler]

The innocence of a child is nice & inspirational but, it isn't always enough as an adult.
For me personally, it would be helpful to hear how others who have gone through difficult situations as an adult, and come through the other side: to know how did they do that?

I can't say I'm the best to answer that question as I don't think I came out the other side as clean as I would have liked to have but I can share some of my experiences.

Probably coming up on 10 years now, so well past the acute period of the faith crisis I went through a gauntlet of sorts. Without getting into specifics, I came out of the other end of that gauntlet without my physical or spiritual health. It was a rough time.

I remember thinking during that period that other people have had it far worse than I. That's always true though, isn't it? There's always someone out there that's had a rougher go of it than we have. I also remember feeling that there were millions of people that went through their trials completely unaided. I had my spouse as a crutch so right away I had a leg up, but unfortunately that wasn't my takeaway. My takeaway was that there was no divine intervention for people in greater need than I, so it was safe to conclude that there would be no divine intervention in my case either.

Not a very comforting thought. I'd say during that period in my life I went from mostly happy-go-lucky to jaded. I wouldn't go so far as to say bitter, though I have had to work through some bitterness.

They say time heals all wounds and in this case time has helped. That said, I do feel like those trials "broke" me. I still haven't been able to put the pieces back together, so much so that I don't know that I care to try anymore. The lasting harm that was done is that I lost trust in humanity and myself. Those are things that are important to find and hold onto.

Sorry for the dour post. Like I mentioned, time has certainly helped. Another thing that has helped is the paradoxical saying, "Relax, nothing is under control." You can see how that statement could bring either despair or hope, depending on your state of mind at the time you read it. I suppose my trials were like that. They brought both despair and hope.

[AmyJ]

I think the church is missing out by not inviting members who really had to work through serious problems that
affected their lives for years. Maybe the answers never came. What lesson was learned then? (If any)

Some member are going to think that if I don't receive an answer to my prayers, then there is something wrong with me.
I think this was a missed opportunity.

Speaking from experience, there is a lot of "reality" and "lived experience" that the church doctrines cannot resolve - and in some cases, made worse.

My family was held up in the stake in the 1990's as a "model family for adversity" because we showed up at church and my sister had 5 open heart surgeries (and that was only a good 1/3 of the life problems that were made worse by this family situation and were life problems in their own right).

We made it through in as intact a family as we did because we trauma-bonded, because we are smart (IQ is helpful sometimes), because we inherited in the DNA somehow the "genuinely good people" gene, because we relied on each other and good information. The church teachings stabilized some of my parents' relationship and provided an instant-community that was sometimes helpful. But none of us really fit into the church's stereotypes - so most of us have drifted out of church activity and church community.

Regarding the "answers to prayers" question - I put this into the "who did sin" bucket that Jesus introduced when talking about the blind son and his parents. Some spectators wanted to say "It's the parents' fault - they sinned and face the consequences.." and others were like, "it's the son's fault - he made some dumb choices at some point and was cursed to be blind...".

Jesus introduces the 3rd bucket - it's not the parents' fault, it's not the child's fault - it came about to "show off the Glory of God".
Granted, I hope that there is a God, and I trust that if I keep an open mind that "at fault" and "blame" isn't the most important part of the equation - that some form of "Divinity" (whether my best self, God's help - whatever) becomes more accessible.

Maybe unanswered prayers are "opportunities for Godliness to show up" somehow - eventually.

[AmyJ]

Then, as adults we go through adult issues or problems & it seems to take longer to resolve or receive answers.
For example:
- A child has a terminal illness or injury.
- Couples get divorced.
- Missionaries die in the field.
- The list goes on.

Some of us never seem to receive an answer.
Some of us never even receive comfort in our grief.
Jesus even on the cross asks "why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46)

The innocence of a child is nice & inspirational but, it isn't always enough as an adult.
For me personally, it would be helpful to hear how others who have gone through difficult situations as an adult, and
come through the other side: to know how did they do that?

It has been sites like this that have given me a window to the other side.

They did it because they had to.
They did it one decision at a time.
- Some of the wiser ones consult with themselves to figure out the strengths they bring to the situation and what their krytonite(s) are.
- Some of them "found God" and some of them "lost God" - even within the same lifetime.

They found people to connect to and "mourn with" - the "good mourners", not Job's showy friends.

[Roy]

Sorry for the dour post. Like I mentioned, time has certainly helped. Another thing that has helped is the paradoxical saying, "Relax, nothing is under control." You can see how that statement could bring either despair or hope, depending on your state of mind at the time you read it. I suppose my trials were like that. They brought both despair and hope.

Circumstances in my life have shifted from a very internal locus of control to a much more external locus of control. I understood from what I knew of the LDS gospel that I could secure/obtain/receive blessings and miracles from God through my righteous priesthood service. This meant that I was in control and being in control felt pretty good until my assumptive world collapsed and I was left to pick up the pieces.

I now have a much more external locus of control and recognize that many things are not within my power. It is a scarier and more uncertain world but, as nibbler points out, there is also a bit of freedom in not being the one in charge.

They found people to connect to and "mourn with" - the "good mourners", not Job's showy friends.

I think one advantage of my current state is being able to mourn with those that mourn more fully. I feel that I would be able to meet the mourner where they are and sit with them in their grief better. I wouldn't feel the need to talk about heaven or God to try to smooth the situation over. I could listen or just sit with them in silence. Sometimes things just suck.

I think there is a tendency of LDS members to use moments of tragedy as opportunities to proselytize or bear testimony. I have now come to see that approach as entirely self-centered and not at all interested in discovering what the mourner thinks, feels, or needs.

[Roy]

I have also noted that another way that our church deals with bad things happening to good people is what I call the "currant bush doctrine."

In this teaching, God has a very specific and personalized plan for each of us. If one person is going through a personal hell, then perhaps God is preparing that individual for a greater purpose later on (perhaps in the next life).

Some people are able to achieve much hope from the idea that there is a higher purpose behind individual pain and suffering.

While this is not something that resonates with me personally, I am happy that others can find hope and meaning where they can as long as they don't hurt others in the process.

[DarkJedi]

I have also noted that another way that our church deals with bad things happening to good people is what I call the "currant bush doctrine."

In this teaching, God has a very specific and personalized plan for each of us. If one person is going through a personal hell, then perhaps God is preparing that individual for a greater purpose later on (perhaps in the next life).

Some people are able to achieve much hope from the idea that there is a higher purpose behind individual pain and suffering.

While this is not something that resonates with me personally, I am happy that others can find hope and meaning where they can as long as they don't hurt others in the process.

The bush teaching/belief pisses me off to no end and not only does it not resonate with me, I believe it to be wholly false. Nonetheless, as you say, there are those who take comfort in it as a way to explain what they don't understand.