I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
Minyan Man
Posts: 2210
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Minyan Man »

I joined this forum in September 2011. This was my Introduction: viewtopic.php?t=2710
I felt tired talking so I took a break for awhile. (About a year ago or so.) Now I decided to come back.
I hope no one minds.

During that time, a lot of situations have come up. The biggest one is that my Grandson died.
He was 22 yrs old.
He just graduated college.
He had the whole world in front of him.
He was not in the church. (That doesn't matter to me.)
He was an all-round good kid.

The worse part is watching my daughter loose her only child & me trying to be supportive1600 miles away.

I'm not looking for sympathy. Just a friendly ear & some advice.
I see that I have a lot of reading to do.
Roy
Posts: 7170
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Roy »

I am sorry to hear about your grandson Minyan.

That is a very hard thing. After our daughter's stillbirth we attended a support group for individuals that had outlived one or more of their children. Parents lost children through all sorts of ways. It is a sad, sad club AND they taught me valuable lessons about life and grief.

As far as advice, I can only recommend listening. Pain repressed will fester. It is best to express it and share it with people that care.

Would you like to tell us more about your grandson and/or the circumstances of his death? We are here to listen if you want to share.

Your friend,

Roy
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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DarkJedi
Posts: 8041
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by DarkJedi »

I am very sorry to hear about your grandson. I can't begin to imagine how you must feel. I think the gospel can bring some peace in situations like this, but that we must come to our own understanding of the gospel and not what others teach or believe. Sometimes situations like yours help us to gain that personal understanding.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
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nibbler
Posts: 5015
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by nibbler »

I'm glad to have your voice back, it has been missed. You bring a nice balancing spirit to this community.

I'm truly sorry about your grandson. I do like Roy's advice, support groups with people that have been through similar experiences can be a godsend. People that know intimately what you're experiencing because they have experienced it themselves. In that way they are very similar to the atonement, Jesus suffered all that he might know how to succor his people, support groups are similar in that regard. Support groups really provide a place to be lifted up and opportunities to lift others up, which can be uplifting in and of itself.

I pray for peace and comfort for you and your family. Your loss is our loss.
I kept a diary right after I was born. Day 1: Tired from the move. Day 2: Everyone thinks I'm an idiot.
— Steven Wright
Minyan Man
Posts: 2210
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Minyan Man »

Roy wrote: 25 Sep 2023, 14:48 I am sorry to hear about your grandson Minyan.

That is a very hard thing. After our daughter's stillbirth we attended a support group for individuals that had outlived one or more of their children. Parents lost children through all sorts of ways. It is a sad, sad club AND they taught me valuable lessons about life and grief.
Roy & nibbler, thank you for your thoughts & suggestions. I'm not going to talk in more detail about my Grandson. My fear is someone reading my post
could recognize who I'm talking about and it gets back to my daughter. I don't want her to think that I'm talking behind her back on social media.
I understand that people die & we go through a grieving process. Sometimes we do it well & sometimes we need support. In this case, I have good
friends & family that I can rely on for moral support & understanding. At this point in time, my main concern is for my daughter. For the memorial
service, there were 7 members of my family that flew out to SLC. We call her weekly to see how she is doing. She is getting group & individual
counselling. She came to visit this summer. We are planning more family gatherings.

It was interesting, at the memorial service, old friends that are "true blue" LDS members came up to her and gave the standard response about
staying close to Jesus (& the church) & you will come through this event even stronger. This gave us the opportunity to talk about how all of us deal with loss differently. I told her that they were doing their best to comfort & support her. She agreed & accepted what they were trying to say.

The older I get, the more I find this life to be very interesting to navigate.
Sometimes you do it well on our own. Sometimes you need support from family, friends & professionals.
Each of us may navigate the same common situation differently.
Carburettor
Posts: 103
Joined: 10 Jul 2023, 01:49

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Carburettor »

Minyan Man wrote: 26 Sep 2023, 14:24 The older I get, the more I find this life to be very interesting to navigate.
Sometimes you do it well on our own. Sometimes you need support from family, friends & professionals.
Each of us may navigate the same common situation differently.
The event your family experienced (which has become a permanent feature of your lives) is truly heartbreaking.

Like you, the older I become, the less my life is turning out to be the way I imagined it.
Roy
Posts: 7170
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Roy »

Minyan Man wrote: 26 Sep 2023, 14:24 It was interesting, at the memorial service, old friends that are "true blue" LDS members came up to her and gave the standard response about
staying close to Jesus (& the church) & you will come through this event even stronger. This gave us the opportunity to talk about how all of us deal with loss differently. I told her that they were doing their best to comfort & support her. She agreed & accepted what they were trying to say.
I feel like there are multiple things going on here.
1) they are trying to offer comfort with things that they themselves find comforting.
2) they are validating and reinforcing their own belief systems that help to keep their own worst fears at bay.
3) the advice to stay close to the church is self reinforcing. If you deal with the loss by hanging onto the assurance of eternal families offered through temple covenants then you may come to feel that anything less than "worthiness" on your part means losing your loved ones.

My own journey with grief have led me to believe that family relationships endure beyond the grave and that the temple ceremonies provide decent symbolism and models to imperfectly represent the eternal nature of these bonds. I believe the relationships are eternal because we are eternal and our love is also eternal. period. Full stop. All the stuff about being separated into different kingdoms and who has visitation rights just doesn't do anything for me in my present condition. Like if my marriage was suddenly dissolved by some government red tape, would my relationship with my wife change?

In summary, If the church and temple system gives someone comfort/hope then I support that. I try to be gracious with people that try to comfort me with what comforts them, especially if I can do so noncommittally with a "thank you" or "how wonderful!"
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Minyan Man
Posts: 2210
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Minyan Man »

Roy, I agree with you 100%.
Old-Timer
Site Admin
Posts: 17239
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Old-Timer »

I am late to this conversation.

God bless you, my friend. You and yours will be in my heart, and mind, and prayers.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Minyan Man
Posts: 2210
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I feel like I should reintroduce myself...

Post by Minyan Man »

Today is the 1 year anniversary of my grandson's death. I find this situation very puzzling & difficult to understand sometimes.
Like I mentioned earlier, he was an all-round terrific guy. He had the whole world in front of him.
He was 22 yrs old.
He just graduated college.
He had the whole world in front of him.
He was not in the church. (That doesn't matter to me.)
He was an all-round good kid.

And he ended his life by suicide.
I pass no judgement about someone ending their own life by suicide. I have no idea what he was going through, etc.
God is our judge not me.

Since his death, my daughter (his Mother) is teaching children who are having a hard time adjusting to High School.
She has establish a scholarship in his name.
She has gone in therapy.
She is participating in an online support group that meets weekly.

It has still been hard for her. It has been hard to watch from long distance.
We call a lot. She lives close to a step brother & step sister. She gets calls from other relatives too on a regular basis.
On the outside looking in, she seems like she is handling reasonably well. What's hard is you don't know what's
always happening on the inside.

I'm sorry that I just dumped my feelings here. I had to do it somewhere.
I've said it before & it's still true today. Life is interesting with all the ups & downs we experience along the way.
On the day of judgement, someone has a lot of explaining to do.
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