Purpose of mortal life

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
Roy
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by Roy »

Watcher,
I believe that you wish to offer support in the more traditional apologist or defender role. This is the approach taken by FARMS and FAIR. I believe that this approach has a place and can be helpful for some.
We at StayLDS take a different approach. For example, what if you come to the conclusion that major foundational claims of the church were not true? Would it still make sense to Stay LDS? If you wanted to still try then what types of strategies would be most helpful and effective?

The people that we usually offer support to are already past the point of being convinced back into the more tradition belief system. In fact, the approach that there is something wrong with them or they are being deceived is pretty offensive and tends to drive them further away and make them hostile towards the church. We listen, validate, and then work to move forward to a positive outcome regardless of whether the individual makes the decision to ultimately stay in the church or not.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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SilentDawning
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by SilentDawning »

For me, the purpose of this life is to maintain inner peace. I don't see it as a test any longer -- I see it as a place of storms and challenges during which we have to learn to stay at peace -- otherwise, we experience mental health issues and unhappiness. I think a corollary to my belief that the purpose of this life is to maintain inner piece is the mandate to learn to be happy regardless of our circumstances.

Happiness is the goal, the object, and the design of our whole existence, and sometimes the church and its demands can be at loggerheads with that goal. I am happier now as a less-active Mormon than I was when I was a full-on, traditional-believing Mormon, that is for sure. Minimizing the demands the church puts on me was a big part of that transition to greater happiness.

I have found that not entwining the spiritual experience of being a Mormon with the temporal aspects (financial welfare payments, LDS Social Services adoptions, working for the church in some capacity) is important. For me, a major cause of my commitment crisis occurred when the spiritual and the temporal crossed paths. Gone were all the grandiosity and miracles you hear about at church with the boring and ever-present temporal matters taking higher priority. A position working for the church in some temporal capacity (a university professor, or the administration arm) is out of the question. I can't handle it when the church behaves in temporal ways at the expense of the well-being of the members.

For example, a few years ago our chapel underwent renovation. 75% of the Ward had to travel 30-40 minutes across town to get to church at an existing building, compared to about 10 minutes. The church had no incentive to speed up the renovation, and it took some 3 years to complete. It seemed that it was not a priority to Salt Lake. This irked me substantially because it felt like the church was behaving like the government -- acting out of its own self-interest and not for the good of the people (members) it is there to serve.

I guess I'm still deciding what place mood medication has in our mortal journey. I struggled for decades with bits and pieces of many mental disorders, but never enough of any one disorder for a diagnosis. That is what my psychiatrist told me when I finally sought help after years of obsessing over things, worrying about things, feeling blue, and being a bit paranoid (not a lot, but a bit). He finally prescribed mood meds that people around me tell me have improved my personality by 30%. I don't worry anymore, am aware of when I plan to obsess about things and tend to obsess a lot less.

I often wonder if God feels I am making progress when I have to rely on meds rather than my own cognitive discipline to get through these problems....
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

"The wise man has the power" -- adapted from What A Fool Believes -- The Doobie Brothers
Roy
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by Roy »

SilentDawning wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 20:32 I often wonder if God feels I am making progress when I have to rely on meds rather than my own cognitive discipline to get through these problems....
We often explore non-traditional LDS ideas here. In this case, even traditional LDS ideas would tell you that God very much approves of your seeking and following the wisdom of medical science. You cannot positive think your way out of a broken leg or willpower your way out of an infection. It seems that you discovered an imbalance in your body that was affecting your personality and thought processes. Kudos to you for seeking a solution and acting on it.
SilentDawning wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 20:32 For me, the purpose of this life is to maintain inner peace.
I like that goal, though I am not great at achieving it. When I am losing sleep over this problem or that, I sometimes remind myself that my kids are growing up happy in a safe and loving home. That can be purpose enough for me sometimes.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Old-Timer
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by Old-Timer »

One of the clear statements from Pres. Nelson in this recent General Conference was that we accept all medical advances.

I believe that was a direct reference to both mental health meds and vaccines.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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InquiringMind
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by InquiringMind »

DarkJedi wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 12:50 It's one of those things God could have made a little (OK, a lot) clearer but since that's not the case we seem to be left on our own again. (And I thank God for Deism! :thumbup: )
This is one I've been thinking about a lot lately. It seems to me that if there is a God who created us and sent us here, the purpose of or lives has been intentionally withheld from us. I don't think it's an accident or a mistake or an oversight that we don't have any information about the purpose of life. That was intentional on the part of God not to tell us.

And I've been considering what that might mean. So far it seems that it doesn't mean that I get to choose my own purpose in life. There still seem to be predetermined or fore-ordained things I need to accomplish in my life. I can't choose a life plan arbitrarily.

I'm going to guess that there is some reason why God has left us to stumble and flounder around, confused and frustrated, trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing with our life. There is some reason why those massive pillars of eternity are hidden from our view. Maybe we need to demonstrate to ourselves and to God what we would do in a situation where there is no compelling reason to do any particular thing. Given a massive array of options for what we could do but no compelling reason to choose any particular option, what will we choose?

But this still conflicts with my own experience of having a specific life plan, but not being able to know what the life plan is. This has been a great source of frustration and anger and a major difficulty I have with faith. It does appear that God has a plan for my life, but He won't tell me what it is. Instead, I have to stumble around in the dark until I just happen to stumble on the right answer, which God apparently knew all along but intentionally withheld from my view.

This is where my experience contradicts the Book of Mormon, where prophets get very clear and direct instructions on what to do next. Instead, I find that I need to wander and stumble around through a process of trial and error, often for months or years, before I stumble on something that works or happen across something that seems interesting to me, then I can follow that path. Why God can't just tell me straight up what to do next, I have no idea.

Philosophers have been asking the question of the purpose of life for a very long time, and it seems clear to me that no one knows the answer. Why no one knows the answer is an interesting discussion in itself, but I personally don't buy into the deist explanation. I don't think on any level that a being that created the universe would be uninterested in us or not care about it. I think the withholding of the purpose of life from our view is intentional and is part of the whole Earth life experience.
Roy
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

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InquiringMind wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 18:30 I personally don't buy into the deist explanation. I don't think on any level that a being that created the universe would be uninterested in us or not care about it. I think the withholding of the purpose of life from our view is intentional and is part of the whole Earth life experience.
Deism is sometimes depicted as God setting the world in motion and then moving on to other things. Deism can also be a system where God speaks to us THROUGH his creation. God speaks through sunsets, a baby's laughter, a hug after a long absence, mountaintops and valleys, mathematics, art, and philosophy - and so much more. Deists (from my understanding) are suspicious of "revealed religion" where one person claims to have received a more direct message from God and expects everyone else to take it on faith. Deism feels that the communication from God is available to all.

Deism also seems to be depicted as God staying out of human affairs but it is not an all or nothing proposition. For example some of our Deist Founding Fathers also believed that God favored the revolution and the creation of the new constitution. I personally like to feel that the great progress that we have seen worldwide towards universal human rights in the last few centuries is God inspired. I do not feel that to be inconsistent with Deism in the least.

Now this does not answer the question of what is the purpose of in individual life. Maybe it is just to recognize good and choose good.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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InquiringMind
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by InquiringMind »

Roy wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 18:56
InquiringMind wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 18:30 I personally don't buy into the deist explanation. I don't think on any level that a being that created the universe would be uninterested in us or not care about it. I think the withholding of the purpose of life from our view is intentional and is part of the whole Earth life experience.
I personally like to feel that the great progress that we have seen worldwide towards universal human rights in the last few centuries is God inspired. I do not feel that to be inconsistent with Deism in the least.
So if God wanted universal human rights, why not just create a world with human rights in the first place? Why create a would God create a world with horrible human rights violations and then applaud us for getting better and better over time, better than the way we were originally created? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Deism is, to my understanding belief in a watchmaker God who at one point was involved in creating us, but now no longer intervenes (at the least) or is (more likely) not paying any attention to us at all.

And if God created us to be such horrible creatures at the very beginning, how could He hold us responsible for acting horribly? We can't be held responsible for the way we were created.
Roy
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by Roy »

Great questions. If God didn't want evil then why create a world where evil is present? I think that all Judeo/Christian based religions struggle with this one.
InquiringMind wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 19:12 Deism is, to my understanding belief in a watchmaker God who at one point was involved in creating us, but now no longer intervenes (at the least) or is (more likely) not paying any attention to us at all.
It can be difficult to nail down what Deists believe because they do not have an organization to produce articles of faith etc. Deism is a category similar to monotheism. Deists believe in God but do not believe that God reveals things through mystical/supernatural methods to certain individuals. Desist belief of God's involvement can exist on a spectrum where some Deists believe in no intervention and others in a greater amount of intervention (though even here, the interventions don't seem to be full on miracles like making the sun stand still in the sky).

My daughter wrote an award winning essay for a Deism essay contest. She compared the creation, the universe, and the entirety of human experience to a pregnancy. To the fetus, the womb is all of existence. The fetus does not receive direct contact from the mother. The mother cannot explain to the fetus what purpose the fetus has. Unknown to the fetus, the mother supplies all the needs of the fetus through her own body. She is paying very careful attention and cares more than the fetus can know.

I understand the depiction of God as a watchmaker. We reduce God down to human professions in our effort to better understand. I prefer the depiction of God as a pregnant mother and this changes several assumptions for me.

P.S. I borrowed the idea from a fellow StayLDS participant Amy. DW and I discussed it extensively leading up to her essay submission
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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DarkJedi
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by DarkJedi »

InquiringMind wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 19:12 Deism is, to my understanding belief in a watchmaker God who at one point was involved in creating us, but now no longer intervenes (at the least) or is (more likely) not paying any attention to us at all.
As someone who more or less leans toward the Deist point of view I think this is a fair concise statement of the general beliefs of Deists. But as Roy points out, it's not really that simple or black and white. It is possible for a Deist to believe God generally does not intervene but sometimes might. Deists don't have a temple recommend interview that asks about beliefs and there is some freedom to make one's own path in that respect.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: Purpose of mortal life

Post by Roy »

I appreciate that perspective DJ
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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