Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

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Gomezaddams51
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Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Gomezaddams51 »

Here is a question that kind of goes along with the Plan of Salvation question. I was married to my first wife in the SLC Temple in 1973. 18 years later we were divorced but did not get a Temple divorce so are we still married according to the church? Secondly I am remarried and my wife wants to go to the Temple and get sealed. She was baptized a few years after we were married civilly. If I get sealed to her, am I married to both or what is going to happen if by some strange chance we all end up together in the same kingdom? My present wife is not exactly thrilled about being the second wife. LOL

So anyone have any ideas on what I am in for?
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nibbler
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by nibbler »

The short version... it's confusing.

Your best bet to untangle the web is section 38.4 of the handbook.

Here's one section (emphasis added):
38.4.1.4 Handbook wrote: Applying for a Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance
A woman who has previously been sealed must receive a cancellation of that sealing from the First Presidency before she may be sealed to another man in her lifetime. A man who has been divorced from a woman who was sealed to him must receive a sealing clearance from the First Presidency before another woman may be sealed to him (see 38.4.1.2).
I don't know the spiritual distinction between a cancellation and a clearance. At first glance it sounds like the man can be sealed to both his ex-wife and current wife, provided his ex-wife has not requested a cancellation due to getting sealed to someone else in the temple.

If that interpretation is correct, I'm both surprised and shocked. I had assumed that a cancellation was required for either the man or the woman.
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Gomezaddams51
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Gomezaddams51 »

I have never had anything canceled and neither has my first wife. My first wife never wanted the divorce. We were both virgins when we got married and knew nothing about sex. We were raised by parents who thought sex was a taboo subject and only told us that we had to wait until marriage to have sex. When we got married our wedding night totally sucked since neither of us had a clue about what to do. My wife hated sex from that night on and we rarely had sex, mostly when she decided she wanted a baby. After the birth of our 4th baby at our 8th year of marriage she informed me she never wanted to have sex again. And I was brainwashed that marriage was forever so I thought I was stuck with her and with a marriage I hated. I survived for 10 more sexless years and finally could take it no more and divorced her. Looking back now, I should have cheated and got the sex she was denying me (man I wanted to cheat but never did), or divorced her. I told my wife I wanted a divorce and she cried and begged me not to divorce her because she loved me. I told her "where was that love when I wanted sex." I basically forced her to sign the papers. Life was so much better and I actually had sex with women. They taught me a lot, basically everything I should have known when I first got married.

I married my second wife when I was 55 and she was 50. I would much rather be married to her. She loves sex and we are happy.

Mod note: just be careful. We're PG and this one is right on the line. We really don't need or want to know details of your sex history.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by DarkJedi »

nibbler wrote: 15 Nov 2021, 14:56 The short version... it's confusing.

Your best bet to untangle the web is section 38.4 of the handbook.

Here's one section (emphasis added):
38.4.1.4 Handbook wrote: Applying for a Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance
A woman who has previously been sealed must receive a cancellation of that sealing from the First Presidency before she may be sealed to another man in her lifetime. A man who has been divorced from a woman who was sealed to him must receive a sealing clearance from the First Presidency before another woman may be sealed to him (see 38.4.1.2).
I don't know the spiritual distinction between a cancellation and a clearance. At first glance it sounds like the man can be sealed to both his ex-wife and current wife, provided his ex-wife has not requested a cancellation due to getting sealed to someone else in the temple.

If that interpretation is correct, I'm both surprised and shocked. I had assumed that a cancellation was required for either the man or the woman.
Not surprised, but I already knew it was this way. It's part of the argument made that the church still practices polygamy and that polygamy is an eternal principal. :think: Not sure if it's still the case, but those cancellations/clearances are not just there for the asking either (IOW, the FP didn't just approve because you asked.)

So, back to the OP, the best and correct answer is not going to come from here - you need to ask your bishop and SP. We are happy to present our opinions on the way we each think it ought to be though. My personal belief is God sorts it all out. Or maybe Jesus's teaching that we are neither married nor given in marriage in the resurrection is actually correct and we're like the Sadducees and err.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Old-Timer
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Old-Timer »

You have the official answer.

My view: I hope we are with the one(s) we love, in some way that will be joy-filled for us. Beyond that, I honestly don’t care.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Gomezaddams51
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Gomezaddams51 »

Yeah I guess no one will know. Sometimes I feel like god is a sociopath and it makes him hard to trust him. About the only thing I can do is hope that he will take my mental problems into consideration and lets me plea bargain... LOL
Roy
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Roy »

Gomezaddams51 wrote: 05 Dec 2021, 19:05 I feel like god is a sociopath and it makes him hard to trust him.
I have sometimes had similar thoughts myself.

A friend has told me, "Maybe it is ok to become disillusioned with our concept of God because we all worship a false God on some level."

This was really impactful for me. The ways in which we think of God could be way off base. When we shift our view of God and Godliness, we might be discarding false and unhelpful notions.

I currently believe in a God that is 100% loving, 100% accepting and understanding, 100% encouraging. I do not, for example, believe in a God that would condemn some of his children to eternal torture and burning. I do not think that my conceptions of God are more true than other people's conceptions but since nobody really knows for sure, I might as well have the conceptions that make the most sense and meaning for me personally. If we are all wrong, then I might as well be wrong in a unique and special way. :D
Gomezaddams51 wrote: 15 Nov 2021, 14:02 So anyone have any ideas on what I am in for?
To answer your question in your OP, I believe that you get to imagine whatever family situation in heaven that you might want. I figure that God will take the best scenario that I can imagine and then he will add even more wonderfulness on top of it.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Gomezaddams51
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Gomezaddams51 »

"To answer your question in your OP, I believe that you get to imagine whatever family situation in heaven that you might want. I figure that God will take the best scenario that I can imagine and then he will add even more wonderfulness on top of it."

I hope so. I am so tired of everything going wrong and every decision I make that seems like it is good turns out to be wrong. I spent most of the first year of my life in an orphanage which totally mess me up mentally and turned me into a Schizoid. I end up scared of girls because my adopted mother made me that way so I didn't date. I make a bunch of bad choices even though I thought they were good at the time. I get married and she turns out to suffer from depression and was probably Bi-Polar and she gained over 400 pounds and hated sex so we rarely had it. About the only thing that is good is I had 4 kids. Later on I take my motorcycle in to a guy who has been working on for 10 years and never had a problem and fixed all sort of bikes and a week after I take my bike to him he goes to prison and I get most of my bike back in pieces. I buy a car and it falls apart. I could go on and on with a list of bad things.

And I won't even go into my health physical and mental. Seems like it is one thing after another. I end up with depression from dealing with my wife and staying with her for 18 long years before I finally said to hell with the no divorce thing and divorced her. Unfortunately the anti-depressants gave me sexual problems so I could rarely perform and then I finally find I wife that I thought was a good choice and she turns out not exactly what I thought she was not to mention I end up with ED then a few years I end up with nerve damage and my lower spinal cord is all messed up, I had a cyst on my spinal cord and a bunch of bad discs and now I can barely walk. It just keeps getting worse and worse so god had better do something because I am tired of getting screwed over my whole life. I feel like god owes me big time.
Roy
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Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Roy »

Hi Gomez,

I am sorry for what you have gone through. I think that part of the allure of religion is the desire for justice. Essentially, I think that we want (at least in part) for things to be fair. We can clearly see that things are not fair in this life. The idea is that in the next life things will be remedied. The good people (and those oppressed or downtrodden) will be rewarded and the bad people (oppressors) will receive their comeuppance.

It seems clear that you have had more than your fair share of challenges. I am sorry for that.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Gomezaddams51
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Joined: 04 May 2020, 11:19

Re: Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

Post by Gomezaddams51 »

I kind of look at life like this and the different types of people:

There is a huge room filled halfway with crap. You walk through waist deep and there are different kinds of people.
1. They walk through and stick their hands down in it and they come up with a hand full of jewels not all the time but a majority of the time.
2. They walk through and stick their hands in and come up with a hand full of silver and an occasional gold piece but only every 10 or 20 times.
3. They walk through and stick their hands down and come up with an occasional penny or two but mostly end up with crap.
4. They walk through and stick their hands down and only come up with crap.
5. The last group sticks their hands down and only come up with crap but they also catch a disease from the crap.

That is how I view life. I feel like I am #4 or 5 most of my life.
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