A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

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Old-Timer
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A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

Post by Old-Timer »

I believe in the possibility or even eventuality of universal exaltation for a few reasons, but the most basic reason is quite simple:

I grew up with an extended family member who was described back then as "retarded". We now would describe them as developmentally disabled. We already teach that people like them who are born with disabilities that keep them from being able to sin (consciously choose to act in opposition to what they know to be right) will not be punished for anything they do that otherwise would be considered sin. We do that largely because we see them as pure and good, so we understand instinctively that when they do something we normally consider as bad or sinful it is not because they are bad or sinful; rather, we understand that they simply cannot understand. By doing so, we exclude many millions of people from the "normal" punishments of sin and the standard performance requirements of exaltation. I love that teaching, mostly because it opens the door for universal exaltation in a way we never discuss.

What about the other extreme manifestation of the same issue?

Clinical psychopaths are described as being born without a conscience. They literally lack the ability to see right and wrong (or moral and immoral) and to make choices based on that distinction. They act essentially in a purely animalistic, selfish, "natural" manner - because they are unable to act otherwise - because they simply cannot understand. They are characterized often as purely bad. Conceptually, however, they are in the same situation as the developmentally disabled who generally are seen as purely good - or, at least, not accountable. They lack the ability to make conscious decisions about good and bad and, therefore, default to their "nature".

Our 2nd Article of Faith says people will not be punished for Adam's transgression - which is another way of saying they won't be held accountable for the part of themselves they don't choose. Instead, through the Atonement, they are freed to work on changing those things (repenting), by faith (belief that they can do so), through baptism (which will be performed for every person who ever is born), and by enduring to the end (within a framework of time and all eternity). People with typical developmental disabilities will not be punished for their inability to understand many things and make conscious choices between right and wrong, so, logically, neither will people who are psychopathic.

Here is why I believe this description of the extremes is a description of universal exaltation:

If the Atonement explicitly covers the extremes, including people who are born as psychopaths (usually seen as the "worst" people possible), then I cannot fathom it not covering everyone between those extremes.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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DarkJedi
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Re: A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

Post by DarkJedi »

Thanks OT. I am like minded. I also believe that our all loving Heavenly Parents whose work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of humans do everything possible to accomplish their work and glory - and "with God nothing is impossible."
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

Post by Roy »

Unfortunately, belief systems are not exactly built upon logic. ;)

Nevertheless, it can't hurt to have logic on your side when called upon to explain your beliefs.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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SamBee
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Re: A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

Post by SamBee »

Psychopaths have an excuse, but there are those who are knowingly sadistic, and therein lies the problem. I mention a notorious serial killer on another recent thread - Ted Bundy - but the most damage is done by people "obeying orders", i.e. those who are part of a power structure. Many more are killed by them than by lone wolves. If you've ever read about Mao's China, you'll have heard about the terrible pain inflicted during the Cultural Revolution. The death toll of that regime is tens of millions which makes monsters like Bundy seem moderate by comparison.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
Roy
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Re: A Simple, Logical Argument for Universal Exaltation

Post by Roy »

I think that old-timer's theory argues that all humans are limited in knowledge, limited in choice, limited in ability. We teach that the only way for accountability to happen is through agency yet the best that we can hope for in this life is partial agency.
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Those that are part of a power structure or system of oppression would seem to have pretty limited choices.

Once we move on from a punishment/reward model to a model of growth then each person can be allowed to grow at their own pace and for as long as is necessary.

In as much as we have the ability to choose the good, let us choose the good!
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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