Um...self-stimulation okay in marriage?

[AmyJ]

My post is being interpretated correctly.

From a biological perspective, men have more testosterone and are more sensitive to its influence. Testosterone is one of the key components to the biological side of a sex drive. From a pragmatic stance, boys and men do need to figure out how much attention to pay to their sex drives throughout their lives more explicitly and more often then girls and women are likely to need to do so.

Also, our boys are socialized where care and affection are sexual first - which means that men are even more at risk of being emotionally slighted by a touched-out wife with the newborn. There isn't a lot of sex going on to provide emotional connection that is used to counter the stresses of the newborn 3-5 months. Most couples have the horror stories of the fights the happen because the father is emotionally and physically disconnected from his recovering spouse attached to the new baby.

In terms of masturbation, it's the "aftercare" and how the individual judges the act that matters the most. If a person is horny and cranky about it - they are more likely to snap at others and not contribute to the good the family (and rely on a partner for release - so are more likely to coerce the partner). If a person walks around in a massive post-masturbation shame cloud generated because "they weren't good enough" to avoid masturbating - that is equally problematic.

[Roy]

I have two questions for others

1. Your thoughts on functional masturbation not being sinful but other types of masturbation being sinful?
2. Is it God’s design for most men (not all) to have high levels of sexual arousal? (I know there are also some relationship where it is reversed)

I'm of a school of thought where sin = ethics = harm. I believe that we have a duty to reduce or minimize harm and inflicting harm more or less functions as sin.

Therefore, using masturbation as a method of avoiding turning sexually to your spouse is harmful to your relationship and probably harmful to your spouse's feelings. If your spouse is withholding sex because of spite, that is harmful to the relationship and harmful to you.
Likewise, coercing a spouse to have sex when they are not interested is harmful for the relationship and the spouse. "Functional masturbation" to relieve sexual tension and avoid coercing your partner can be viewed as a charitable act and an effort to minimize harm.

Masturbation with pornography or fantasizing about others besides one's spouse can be harmful to your relationship and harmful to your spouse's feelings.

Speaking more broadly, I believe that we have a duty to live in such a way that is considerate and conscientious and does the least amount of damage possible. To the degree that we fail in this duty, we are unethical or sinful. I believe that we all are unethical and sinful to a degree and I am thankful for the atonement of Jesus. 100% sinlessness or 0% harm was never humanly possible. It is important to give ourselves and others grace and forgiveness as we navigate our lives.

I understand that women are more generally wired to connect with the children and prioritize making a safe and comfortable home for them. I have heard it theorized that men's libido helps to motivate them to connect with a woman, reproduce with her, and care for her and her offspring.

[skipper]

My post is being interpretated correctly.

From a biological perspective, men have more testosterone and are more sensitive to its influence. Testosterone is one of the key components to the biological side of a sex drive. From a pragmatic stance, boys and men do need to figure out how much attention to pay to their sex drives throughout their lives more explicitly and more often then girls and women are likely to need to do so.

Also, our boys are socialized where care and affection are sexual first - which means that men are even more at risk of being emotionally slighted by a touched-out wife with the newborn. There isn't a lot of sex going on to provide emotional connection that is used to counter the stresses of the newborn 3-5 months. Most couples have the horror stories of the fights the happen because the father is emotionally and physically disconnected from his recovering spouse attached to the new baby.

In terms of masturbation, it's the "aftercare" and how the individual judges the act that matters the most. If a person is horny and cranky about it - they are more likely to snap at others and not contribute to the good the family (and rely on a partner for release - so are more likely to coerce the partner). If a person walks around in a massive post-masturbation shame cloud generated because "they weren't good enough" to avoid masturbating - that is equally problematic.

These thoughts about aftercare and a person feeling they were not” good enough" to avoid masturbating I think would ring true, even in the framework of what I am calling functional masturbation or masturbation to end feelings of sexual arousal to be thoughtful and considerate toward one partner – in most cases (but not all) a husband trying to be thoughtful toward his wife.

I think the part of struggle lies in the doctrine of Saints having control of their bodies, be it eating, sleeping, or sexual arousal.
That is why I have ask in this thread and the polygamy thread about how much control do men have of their sexual drive. In one sense I can see how masturbation can be a good way to manage sexual arousal but in another sense I feel all men (and women) should be able to manage it without masturbation and the feeling of not being good enough or even disturbed by not being able to control it.

It is a very good thought.

[AmyJ]

I think the part of struggle lies in the doctrine of Saints having control of their bodies, be it eating, sleeping, or sexual arousal.
That is why I have ask in this thread and the polygamy thread about how much control do men have of their sexual drive. In one sense I can see how masturbation can be a good way to manage sexual arousal but in another sense I feel all men (and women) should be able to manage it without masturbation and the feeling of not being good enough or even disturbed by not being able to control it.

It is a very good thought.

Bolding added by me.

I think that the amount of individual control a man has varies across the entire male demographic and includes:
a) How much control does the individual man expect himself to have?
b) How much mentorship and good advice did he actually get growing up?
c) How many non-sexualized encounters did he have with the opposite gender growing up (i.e. siblings and extended family)?
d) What other traumatic experiences were going on his life?

I think that humans have the level of control over their sex drives that each person participating in sex should be able to determine when a person falls pregnant. I think that we should be offering vasectomy and birth control access a lot more then we actually do culturally towards this end and that men need to be part of this conversation rather then assuming all family planning/birth control is "women's work".

[skipper]

I think the part of struggle lies in the doctrine of Saints having control of their bodies, be it eating, sleeping, or sexual arousal.
That is why I have ask in this thread and the polygamy thread about how much control do men have of their sexual drive. In one sense I can see how masturbation can be a good way to manage sexual arousal but in another sense I feel all men (and women) should be able to manage it without masturbation and the feeling of not being good enough or even disturbed by not being able to control it.

It is a very good thought.

Bolding added by me.

I think that the amount of individual control a man has varies across the entire male demographic and includes:
a) How much control does the individual man expect himself to have?
b) How much mentorship and good advice did he actually get growing up?
c) How many non-sexualized encounters did he have with the opposite gender growing up (i.e. siblings and extended family)?
d) What other traumatic experiences were going on his life?

I think that humans have the level of control over their sex drives that each person participating in sex should be able to determine when a person falls pregnant. I think that we should be offering vasectomy and birth control access a lot more then we actually do culturally towards this end and that men need to be part of this conversation rather then assuming all family planning/birth control is "women's work".

I agree with everything you have shared. However, all are social science based or sociological. I would add another biological variable. Part of it would also rest with testosterone levels and other neurochemicals. Granted, some of these can be environmental also, as environment affects hormones and neurochemicals.

There are very credible studies that have underscores that men with higher testosterone levels have more difficultly controlling sexual drive and are not as engaged with nurturing/parenting children (and have larger testicle size). They tend be rated by their wives as not being the best fathers. Part is biological, part is social.

But how much of the male sex drive is God’s design and did God design men to have a difficult time managing it?