Growing to dislike the church because of it's members

[SilentDawning]

I would like to offer my perspective on this.

I too have been blindsided and deeply hurt by the behavior of church members. There was a traditional believer's discussion forum I started participating in about 10 years ago, and when I offered some of my problems with church members and areas of doubt in the church, there was a group of old timers who wrote a lot of nasty things to me -- without receiving any moderation. I was appalled that people who had made such a commitment to be kind to others would behave that way. I eventually deregistered my account and came here - where people are more accepting of alternate points of view.

In my home ward, there was a YW presidency who were really mean to me -- going so far as to circulate a nasty note to the entire Ward leadership about me and my weaknesses as a leader. This hurt me deeply and it bothered me for over 10 years. I finally dealt with it with EMDR therapy. I now now feel no need to reiterate what they did and its impact and have moved past this.

Also bothersome to me was how much time it took to be an LDS leader, and how I started a lot of projects that the members never finished. I was frustrated with the lack of commitment and reliability from people who accepted callings.

So, then I turned my service hours to the community for about 5 years. Guess what? I experienced many of the same problems I saw in the church. Not the nasty notes, but lack of commitment and interpersonal conflicts with individual people over the best way to do things. So, the weaknesses you see in church members also exist in other volunteer contexts, particularly related to interpersonal conflicts and lack of commitment.

I wish I hadn't let the behavior of others affect me so. But it did. So realize you will run into disappointing people in just about any non-profit context.

Church members are also very prone to judgmentalism since we all share a common code of conduct. That comes with the territory of belonging to a church with a lot of prescribed behavior like the LDS Church. And its one reason I think Christ said "Be a light not a judge".

So, try to overlook their behavior, try to forgive people for their shortcomings, and try to be a light to others amidst their weaknesses.

I hope this helps,

SD

[Roy]

So, then I turned my service hours to the community for about 5 years. Guess what? I experienced many of the same problems I saw in the church. Not the nasty notes, but lack of commitment and interpersonal conflicts with individual people over the best way to do things. So, the weaknesses you see in church members also exist in other volunteer contexts, particularly related to interpersonal conflicts and lack of commitment.

Yeah, like old timer says, people are gonna people.

From Elder Uchdorf:

Every day I meet Church members who are filled with a radiant joy and who demonstrate in word and deed that their lives are immeasurably enriched by the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

But I also recognize that there are some who have a less-than-fulfilling experience—who feel that their membership in the Church sometimes isn’t quite what they had hoped for.

This saddens me because I know firsthand how the gospel can invigorate and renew one’s spirit—how it can fill our hearts with hope and our minds with light. I know for myself how the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ can transform lives from the ordinary and dreary to the extraordinary and sublime.

The church experience really really works for some, and it really really doesn't work for others. I believe that it works best for those that find a sense of belonging, affirmation, structure, and community in a relatively homogenous group. I believe that it works less well for people that are on the margins and can be a negative experience for groups that are excluded or othered.

[AmyJ]

I think the church as an organization with specific teachings and a distinct culture works for some people for some parts of their lives. I think it's important to remember that it is more "seasonal" and less "individual-specific" - mostly to provide an accurate picture throughout time.

There are times that the church commitment hasn't worked for my mom, and isn't working for me. As near as I can tell, the church commitment has worked for my dad since he joined the church back in the 70's - but that doesn't mean he has had had the same level of commitment or engagement. In talking to both parents, those times that my mom wasn't attending were magnified by post-partum depression (which my dad never experienced directly to the same degree) and my dad was able to explicitly compartmentalize the exclusion and "othering" being offered to him - he was there for the doctrine, not the human-ing humans.

[DarkJedi]

From Elder Uchdorf:

Every day I meet Church members who are filled with a radiant joy and who demonstrate in word and deed that their lives are immeasurably enriched by the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

But I also recognize that there are some who have a less-than-fulfilling experience—who feel that their membership in the Church sometimes isn’t quite what they had hoped for.

This saddens me because I know firsthand how the gospel can invigorate and renew one’s spirit—how it can fill our hearts with hope and our minds with light. I know for myself how the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ can transform lives from the ordinary and dreary to the extraordinary and sublime.

The church experience really really works for some, and it really really doesn't work for others. I believe that it works best for those that find a sense of belonging, affirmation, structure, and community in a relatively homogenous group. I believe that it works less well for people that are on the margins and can be a negative experience for groups that are excluded or othered.

You know I love Elder Uchtdorf, and if he had a fan club I'd be the president and head cheerleader. But this is another of those multitude of instances where the church/church leadership conflates the church and the gospel. The gospel (of Jesus Christ) does still work for me, I find hope in the gospel, and I can be and often am uplifted by studying and learning the gospel. I can't say that about church attendance or participation, especially when the focus is not on the gospel of Jesus Christ. Sadly, our church worship services and other meetings are far too often focused on something else and that's the problem. I recognize the top leadership is doing better, and even down at the ends of the some of the rows things are better than they were 20 years ago. But it's not really at the ends of the rows yet, and, I know I'm being critical, counting the number of times Jesus is mentioned in GC as opposed to 10 or 20 years ago isn't really it. It's more than talking the talk, we're not walking the walk yet.

[AmyJ]

One of the things that I have learned and re-learned over the years is that you do not have to be a Christian (a literal believer in Jesus Christ) in order to have/create radiant joy and a rich life (though it can help people to do so). I think that you have to believe in a force in the world "greater then you" (thank you AA) and that you have to be able to have good interactions with others where you give good to them and they give back good to you in a balanced and sustainable way.

At the loosest framework, this is an interpretation of the "2 Great Commandments" upon which "hang all the law and the prophets" (which is really mentorship and counsel written down as tradition and in-person guidance & support).

I have found that church culture puts LDS church membership as the requirement for ultimate happiness, Christianity as a lower (but "OK" ish) tier of happiness, a Non-Christian but "of the book" tier of happiness (ish - sometimes), and then everyone else (though grouping Buddhists with anti-religion pagans and Atheists with Agnostics and Deists for example shows how cultural stereotypical assessments can get a bit wonky).

It's funny, I do things that are tagged as what "Good Christians" do, and my husband or my mother are like, "that's the Light of Christ working on her" and I'm like, "No, that's not it - Jesus Christ has nothing to do with this. I don't see how God has anything to do with this". And they they get a long-suffering expression and are "Sure Amy, Sure". It's such a weird conversational pattern because I am telling them the last thing they want to hear to their face while doing what they feel "a good Mormon" does. I don't get mean about it or anything, but I also don't back down in my assessment that I don't see the influence of Jesus Christ or God in the decision-making process I went through and I don't feel anything that I would code as "inspiration" at the time either.

[DarkJedi]

One of the things that I have learned and re-learned over the years is that you do not have to be a Christian (a literal believer in Jesus Christ) in order to have/create radiant joy and a rich life (though it can help people to do so). I think that you have to believe in a force in the world "greater then you" (thank you AA) and that you have to be able to have good interactions with others where you give good to them and they give back good to you in a balanced and sustainable way.

At the loosest framework, this is an interpretation of the "2 Great Commandments" upon which "hang all the law and the prophets" (which is really mentorship and counsel written down as tradition and in-person guidance & support).

I have found that church culture puts LDS church membership as the requirement for ultimate happiness, Christianity as a lower (but "OK" ish) tier of happiness, a Non-Christian but "of the book" tier of happiness (ish - sometimes), and then everyone else (though grouping Buddhists with anti-religion pagans and Atheists with Agnostics and Deists for example shows how cultural stereotypical assessments can get a bit wonky).

It's funny, I do things that are tagged as what "Good Christians" do, and my husband or my mother are like, "that's the Light of Christ working on her" and I'm like, "No, that's not it - Jesus Christ has nothing to do with this. I don't see how God has anything to do with this". And they they get a long-suffering expression and are "Sure Amy, Sure". It's such a weird conversational pattern because I am telling them the last thing they want to hear to their face while doing what they feel "a good Mormon" does. I don't get mean about it or anything, but I also don't back down in my assessment that I don't see the influence of Jesus Christ or God in the decision-making process I went through and I don't feel anything that I would code as "inspiration" at the time either.

There is church/church leadership rhetoric about only church members being able to be truly happy. Like you Amy, I have found this to be untrue. This probably partly comes from living in an area where church members are an extremely small minority. The truth I know many happy people of various religious persuasions, some with no religious leanings at all (or outright atheist). That's not to say I don't know happy Mormons, but I also know some unhappy ones. I still don't understand how some members of the church don't see the happiness in others, nor do I understand how some members can't fathom how some people who leave the church can be happy. For some, leaving the church, or at least church activity, is the best thing and does indeed improve happiness or at least relieve anxiety.

[AmyJ]

There is church/church leadership rhetoric about only church members being able to be truly happy. Like you Amy, I have found this to be untrue. This probably partly comes from living in an area where church members are an extremely small minority. The truth I know many happy people of various religious persuasions, some with no religious leanings at all (or outright atheist). That's not to say I don't know happy Mormons, but I also know some unhappy ones. I still don't understand how some members of the church don't see the happiness in others, nor do I understand how some members can't fathom how some people who leave the church can be happy. For some, leaving the church, or at least church activity, is the best thing and does indeed improve happiness or at least relieve anxiety.

Reading your response made me smile as I remembered a conversation I had with my currently atheist daughter. We live in a rural Christian (non-LDS) community with 4+ non-LDS Christian churches in a 5 mile swath by my house (and at least 3 more non-LDS Christian churches in the village 7 miles away). The local branch meets in a different city 9 miles out in a different direction, and that larger city has at least 3 more additional denominations that I have seen. There is a Non-LDS Christian church community outreach program at her high school where the kids can have donuts and gather in the quad for a 15 minute homily about 1x a week before school. My daughter desperately needed the donuts (ok, she needed to blend in socially and the calories on her smaller frame) and had concerns about the ethics of accepting and eating the donut while being a committed non-believer. I reassured her that the people running the program wanted the kids to gather to have the chance to hear what their church was saying and connect teens together - but they had no concrete expectations aside from general good manners of the teens.

The older I get, the more I realize that "happiness" is a good 30 percent of what I would call "fortune/luck" (genetics, circumstances, etc.), 30 percent "good mindset/judgement/vision" where you can be a person of character who makes mentally healthy choices, pays attention to emotionally maturing and adapt, and the remaining 40% "hard work and determination". Religion can grow the community to provide accommodations for improvements in any of those categories (and is the easiest way by far more often than not to do some of that heavy lifting), but it isn't the only or even always the best path for all the time. I think sometimes one's "path through life" is an Iron Rod path where you see the vision and gather your resources to do so, and other times it's a Liahona path where nothing makes sense, and your course is visible literally day-by-day.

[Arrakeen]

I'm sure I'm not the only one struggling with this. But lately I have been becoming more and more disassociated with the church because of it's members. I know often times i'll see members behaving very unchrist like on places like social media and even in real life. I feel like I have just been going through the motions lately. Attending my ysa ward and going to the Temple once per month so I can at least pretend to be active. But this is just really bothering me.

I have long struggled with this as well, especially during my time at BYU. I don't remember who said it, but I once heard the line "The church is not a museum for the righteous, but a hospital for sinners." I think this is an interesting perspective. We often hear about church members being an example or a light to the world, but in my experience church members aren't necessarily any more "Christlike" than the rest of the population. I have known many members who were flawed individuals, including some much more deeply flawed than people I've known outside of the church. But you wouldn't go into a hospital expecting the patients there to be representative of peak physical health. So from that angle it's not surprising or even a bad thing to find selfish, judgemental, or unkind people among the members of the church.

Ideally, the purpose of the church is to help flawed people become better. The extent to which it actually achieves this varies greatly between individuals. The important part is whether it is helping you.

In my own case, I have distanced myself from the church and no longer attend. I find it can sometimes be easier to view church members charitably when their flaws can no longer hurt or impact me directly.