Didge here

[DarkJedi]

In another thread you mentioned that you are on the older side. The church is changing some of its former stances but the changes generally happen by de-emphasizing or quietly discontinuing past teachings. Thus the former teachings can take a really long time to work their way out of the system.

I also have a calling, one that I hope they let me keep for a long time because I like it, and it doesn't require me to compromise my beliefs/unbeliefs. Again, we don't get to pick and choose callings; we just get marching orders. The standard line about callings is that they're always inspired and that one should never turn them down.

I think that the idea of never saying "no" to a calling is one of these that is being quietly discontinued. I still hear the part about "always inspired." On the other hand, "inspired" does not necessarily mean revelation from God. There can be many sources of "inspiration" and in most wards it seems to often be desperation and/or a process of elimination. A large percentage of people are saying "no" to certain challenging callings. So many that I don't think it is tenable to attach a sin-like guilt (as though God is giving you an assignment and you refuse) to the act.

I actually came here to say this. Saying no to a calling today is not what it meant 20 years ago. I think at least part of that comes from a realization for many people that not all callings are inspired (and based on my own experiences on both sides - extending and receiving - almost none are truly revelation). I also note Roy does make a good point about inspiration as opposed to revelation, something I learned about here many years ago (maybe from Roy). Nonetheless, in modern times there are lots of legitimate reasons to say no to a calling and I think modern leadership has come to terms with that because they also know not everything is inspired (there's the old adage of "inspiration, relation, or desperation" that's more the latter than the former). Also, I think more people are willing to set boundaries nowadays, and some are even upfront about what kinds of things they will or won't do. My fairly orthodox wife has come to that point after years of struggling with family and work with somewhat hefty callings. She is currently a RS counselor but they are in need of a new president because of some serious health issues with the current one. She has been very upfront with the bishop about not asking her - she's willing to continue her current role but doesn't feel as though she has the time or energy for the role of president (she currently works full time and recently was promoted with added responsibilities). I think a lot of younger people are more in tune with self care and life balance as well, and are quite willing to let it be known their focus is on their families and/or careers at the moment and another time consuming responsibility may be too much.

[nibbler]

For what it's worth, there was a talk about callings during general conference. I forget who gave it on what day but I don't remember any language being employed to insinuate that people can't say no to callings. I would have picked up on that.

The speaker did ask bishops to review the list of people that don't have callings and find something for them to do, so the calling-less people out there may be getting a call from their bishop soon.

You can still remain calling-less after your discussion with your bishop though.

[DarkJedi]

For what it's worth, there was a talk about callings during general conference. I forget who gave it on what day but I don't remember any language being employed to insinuate that people can't say no to callings. I would have picked up on that.

The speaker did ask bishops to review the list of people that don't have callings and find something for them to do, so the calling-less people out there may be getting a call from their bishop soon.

You can still remain calling-less after your discussion with your bishop though.

Definitely one I missed either because I didn't see that session or wasn't paying attention. I have been callingless for a bit now - a few years now. I also recently discovered I no longer have a ministering assignment. I was actually OK with ministering, but I haven't been interviewed even longer than I've been callingless. When I was assigned it was only two families, neither of which were particularly needy, but one is pretty old school. We have a small faction in our ward who think ministering needs to include regular (read monthlyish) visits, and that guy is part of that faction. I don't/won't do monthly visits, and maybe he asked for somebody else, I don't know. I'm also fine with not ministering.

I have not been to church in about as long as I haven't had a calling (a little less). I have thought that I might go if I had a reason. Having a calling might be a reason, but of course I'm not going to take just any calling. Our current bishop has never talked to me about a calling, and his 5 years are about up (he talks about being released soon according to my wife). I have said this privately here before, but I have been waiting for some time for one of my leaders to be "inspired." Apparently they have not been. I can get by without church if church can get by without me.

[Didge]

Callings can work both ways. I've seen some callings turn out to be a disaster for the called, leading to their inactivity, but being without one can be alienating also. Some years ago, my wife and I held a calling together and then were released from it without being called to anything else. We assumed something would be coming down the pipes and just waited. But after six months had passed, I finally wrote an email to a bishopric member with whom I was on friendly terms and asked him what gives. Had a disciplinary court been held on us without our knowledge? Were we still members? We were attending, paying tithing, I assured him that I wasn't surfing porn or consuming forbidden substances (I was a bit sarcastic in my message). Was it because we had let our TR lapse? One of the reasons not having a calling bothered me was that I knew from a painful earlier experience how gossipy Mormon wards can be, and I imagined everyone speculating about what "problems" we might have since we had no calling. At the same time, I hesitated to lobby for a calling, because you never know what you'll end up with. So I can empathize with your dilemma, Dark Jedi. I hope things work out to your satisfaction.

[AmyJ]

If I ever went back to church, I would pray personally about where I was "called" and politely "call myself" to help out. I have a track record of "calling" myself to Primary, to Nursery, and asking via my husband if I could be called as a Relief Society teacher. And if there was no place for me in the church, I would "call" myself to minister in the community.

NOTE: I know "that's not how things are done" and I would be committing a form of social suicide (probably) for church.


Life is too short to wait around for someone else's inspiration on my behalf.

[DarkJedi]

So I can empathize with your dilemma, Dark Jedi. I hope things work out to your satisfaction.

Just to clarify, not having a calling is not what led to me not attending church. Church services themselves not being engaging is what led to me not attending church. So, even with a calling I'd likely find church unengaging, although with the right calling I might be able to make at least part of it more engaging. Although I wouldn't likely accept a calling that didn't necessarily require attendance at church (for example family history - a hard no go for me) some such calling might also be within the realm of possibilities (although I can't really think of one that fits off hand). In my personal case there might be some correlation in church attendance and a calling, but there really isn't causation. The correlation is a coincidence.

FWIW, my ward is extremely small and struggling. They're losing people left and right due to move outs and deaths. There are certainly opportunities and need there. That's one of the things that perplexes me and frankly solidifies my point of view of lack of inspiration on the part of the leadership. And, yes, I think God is aware of all of this, thus solidifying my Deist point of view.

[Roy]

I also note Roy does make a good point about inspiration as opposed to revelation, something I learned about here many years ago (maybe from Roy).

Many years ago, my wife was going through some difficulties. I don't remember the specifics but I think the bishop's wife was talking to my wife and told her something like, "I hope you don't mind but I asked my husband to visit you to see how he might help." Some days later, when the bishop did visit, he said that he felt inspired to come by. My wife called him out and said that she already knew that his wife had asked him to visit. He laughed and said, "inspiration comes in many forms." This is also a wonderful example of ministry/pastoring.

[DarkJedi]

I also note Roy does make a good point about inspiration as opposed to revelation, something I learned about here many years ago (maybe from Roy).

Many years ago, my wife was going through some difficulties. I don't remember the specifics but I think the bishop's wife was talking to my wife and told her something like, "I hope you don't mind but I asked my husband to visit you to see how he might help." Some days later, when the bishop did visit, he said that he felt inspired to come by. My wife called him out and said that she already knew that his wife had asked him to visit. He laughed and said, "inspiration comes in many forms." This is also a wonderful example of ministry/pastoring.

And this is why I haven't told my wife that I might be persuaded to come to church if I had something to do there. That's not the inspiration I'm looking for.