BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

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Roy
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Re: BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

Post by Roy »

Another side note for me is the use of the term "Cancel Culture." Dr. Dyer writes:
But where does this toxic perfectionism come from? As summarized in my article, “Perfectionism Across Adolescence,” it likely emerges from a society where (1) there are an anxiety-provoking number of choices to make, (2) polarized and cancel culture gives choices incredibly high stakes, and (3) the sense of community has been lost to radical individualism, turning us obsessively inward rather than encouraging us to be outwardly aware.
Going back to his article "Perfectionism Across Adolescence" for a closer examination of what he says about Cancel Culture:
It may also be that the cancel culture of today’s world instills an overarching fear that if we do not do well, not only will others not respect us, but they may also try to damage our reputations. The barrage of “fail” videos (in which we could include videos of people who make mistakes in public, such as at political events and Senate and House hearings) likely sends a signal to our society that if you make a mistake, your reputation is at risk.
Dr. Dyer seems to be using "Cancel Culture" to mean that in our social media society, honest mistakes, gaffes, or slip-ups can be ground for others to laugh at you or even attack you personally.

This really struck me as odd because this is not how "cancel culture" is used by our society. The quotes below came up as the first items from a google search of "Cancel Culture Definition."
Cancel culture refers to the mass withdrawal of support from public figures or celebrities who have done things that aren't socially accepted today.
“Cancel culture is a movement to remove celebrity status or esteem from a person, place, or thing based on offensive behavior or transgression.”.
Cancel Culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. Cancel Culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming.
I agree that with Dr. Dyer that viral mobs can be problematic/brutal and may indeed contribute to the problem of toxic perfectionism. I would hold out the experience of Monica Lewinsky as an excellent example of how an individual's life can be ruined in this way (she has written at length about her experience after the scandal). But that isn't cancel culture and calling it such is imprecise and misleading.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Old-Timer
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Re: BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

Post by Old-Timer »

Is there a problem with perfectionism in the Church *culture* (including how perfectionism is taught in many materials)? Yes. Is there a problem with perfectionism in the West, generally, and America, specifically. Yes.

Is LDS *theology* perfectionist in the unhealthy sense of avoidance of all mistakes, sins, etc. and self-criticism or condemnation for not being able to do so? No.

Is there a disconnect between the culture and the theology? Yes.

Those are my short answers. As for my longer but not comprehensive answer: I would say a lot of members have a fairly healthy view of the word “perfect” within the theology of Mormonism (a process of growth toward eventually becoming complete, fully-developed, finished, etc.) , but I also would say a lot of members still see it in an unhealthy way (a condition of being sinless, mistake-free, etc.).

I think the overall view / framework is changing generationally. I know I hear MUCH more of the “path of growth” view now than I did in the past - including in General Conference.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

Post by Roy »

Old-Timer wrote: 30 Mar 2025, 22:14 Those are my short answers. As for my longer but not comprehensive answer: I would say a lot of members have a fairly healthy view of the word “perfect” within the theology of Mormonism (a process of growth toward eventually becoming complete, fully-developed, finished, etc.) , but I also would say a lot of members still see it in an unhealthy way (a condition of being sinless, mistake-free, etc.).

I think the overall view / framework is changing generationally. I know I hear MUCH more of the “path of growth” view now than I did in the past - including in General Conference.
I can think of a few standout proponents of the path of growth model (Brad Wilcox: His Grace is Sufficient, Stephen Robinson: Believing Christ). I'm not sure that I hear this viewpoint very often. It's frankly hard for me to imagine using the term perfect in this way (a process of growth toward eventually becoming complete, fully-developed, finished, etc.) with a church member.

However, I do agree that many members do not overly beat themselves up with self loathing over imperfections - especially if those imperfections are pretty common among members (an "addiction" to Mt. Dew or failure to truly "magnify" their calling as examples).
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Old-Timer
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Posts: 17437
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

Post by Old-Timer »

When I have talked about Matthew 5:48, for example, using our footnote about the original meaning of the word “perfect”, and linked that to Eternal Progression, I have not had a single person argue with me.

It is all about the way it is framed.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Roy
Posts: 7442
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: BYU Toxic Perfectionism Study

Post by Roy »

Old-Timer wrote: 31 Mar 2025, 18:20 When I have talked about Matthew 5:48, for example, using our footnote about the original meaning of the word “perfect”, and linked that to Eternal Progression, I have not had a single person argue with me.

It is all about the way it is framed.
Yes, I can agree with that.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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