New LDS hymnbook

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SilentDawning
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

Post by SilentDawning »

I wish we could add contemporary songs by LDS artists. I get a lot out of Afterglow's songs and would be very receptive to more contemporary songs from the likes of Janice Kapp Perry, Michael McLean, Bruce Neubert, Afterglow, and others that have created some really good LDS music. If this is deemed too radical, then ask these people to write some songs that have the same musical quality as hymns.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

"The wise man has the power" -- adapted from What A Fool Believes -- The Doobie Brothers
Carburettor
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

Post by Carburettor »

SilentDawning wrote: 04 Jun 2024, 15:06 I wish we could add contemporary songs by LDS artists. I get a lot out of Afterglow's songs and would be very receptive to more contemporary songs from the likes of Janice Kapp Perry, Michael McLean, Bruce Neubert, Afterglow, and others that have created some really good LDS music. If this is deemed too radical, then ask these people to write some songs that have the same musical quality as hymns.
I believe the issue here is probably cultural — as in, it's your culture but not others'.

The musical creations of one particular individual you favor are enough to make me cringe and heave. If they were in the hymnbook, I would flat-out refuse to sing. Perhaps that's why the collection necessarily feels like it's stuck in a time-warp.

I guess I'll be content as long as they ditch the patriotic, warmongering tunes. I have reached a point in my life where I can no longer tolerate those either. I think it was the rise in global Jihad that put me off references to wielding swords and slaying our enemies.
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DarkJedi
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

Post by DarkJedi »

Carburettor wrote: 05 Jun 2024, 09:10
SilentDawning wrote: 04 Jun 2024, 15:06 I wish we could add contemporary songs by LDS artists. I get a lot out of Afterglow's songs and would be very receptive to more contemporary songs from the likes of Janice Kapp Perry, Michael McLean, Bruce Neubert, Afterglow, and others that have created some really good LDS music. If this is deemed too radical, then ask these people to write some songs that have the same musical quality as hymns.
I believe the issue here is probably cultural — as in, it's your culture but not others'.

The musical creations of one particular individual you favor are enough to make me cringe and heave. If they were in the hymnbook, I would flat-out refuse to sing. Perhaps that's why the collection necessarily feels like it's stuck in a time-warp.

I guess I'll be content as long as they ditch the patriotic, warmongering tunes. I have reached a point in my life where I can no longer tolerate those either. I think it was the rise in global Jihad that put me off references to wielding swords and slaying our enemies.
I do see some understanding on the part of the church that it is a global organization and not a Utah organization. I also see a fair amount of reticence and maybe even some resistance to change.

When the new hymnbook was announced there was the promise of more globally appropriate music, but it also seemed like some of that would only be available online and probably not used everywhere. If there are hymns that are meaningful for Africans or Asians and they are available to them to use I think that's great. I don't necessarily care as long as I don't have to sing something that's meaningless to me. (There are hymns in the current hymnbook I don't sing or don't sing certain verses of.) I totally get why someone from England or Germany might not really find much meaning in some of the Utah or pioneer centered hymns. "Firm as the mountains around us" or "I hear the desert calling" make little sense for much of the U.S., much less other places.

I'd also be content with dropping the patriotic and warmongering hymns along with the Utah/pioneer hymns or having them only online and let the people of Utah hear the desert calling all they want. Although I will say I do like Onward Christian Soldiers and Battle Hymn of the Republic, but I'd still be OK with them being online.

Back to SD's point, I think some of the issue there might be copyright related (although some pf Perry's stuff is in the soon-to-be-defunct Children's Songbook. The other issue is really more personal but maybe more widely held - I don't care for much of it, and would care even less for it in church.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

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Carburettor wrote: 05 Jun 2024, 09:10
SilentDawning wrote: 04 Jun 2024, 15:06 I wish we could add contemporary songs by LDS artists. I get a lot out of Afterglow's songs and would be very receptive to more contemporary songs from the likes of Janice Kapp Perry, Michael McLean, Bruce Neubert, Afterglow, and others that have created some really good LDS music. If this is deemed too radical, then ask these people to write some songs that have the same musical quality as hymns.
I believe the issue here is probably cultural — as in, it's your culture but not others'.

The musical creations of one particular individual you favor are enough to make me cringe and heave. If they were in the hymnbook, I would flat-out refuse to sing. Perhaps that's why the collection necessarily feels like it's stuck in a time-warp.

I guess I'll be content as long as they ditch the patriotic, warmongering tunes. I have reached a point in my life where I can no longer tolerate those either. I think it was the rise in global Jihad that put me off references to wielding swords and slaying our enemies.
I am interested in the artist that makes you cringe Carburrettor. Care to share? I can see how Afterglow might bother some people with the preachy prelude narrations to certain songs, but they have a ton of songs with really good melodies, two-part harmonies, call and response, and atmosphere created like I Know He's There, Armor of Truth, and Example to the world. I listen to many of those over and over. My least favorite would be Janice Kapp Perry who failed to make much of an impression on me, although she had a couple "hits" that people would sing in Sacrament meeting like "Jesus Was No Ordinary Man" or the song about how "Jesus Came to John the Baptist" that we would hear at baptisms.

Michael McLean had some good songs like Together Forever, and Will He Really Answer Me? But when I listen to his Best of Albums I am not moved like I am with Afterglow's melodies, harmonies, and atmospheres created. Bryce Neubert -- I'm a huge fan of his, and am sorry that all that is left on ebay is his Best of CD. He was one LDS musician I figured could have made it in the main stream pop world given his vocal range, and memorable melodies like Amy Grant did.

Anway, do share more about artists you like and ones that make you cringe.

Also, what has happened to comtemporary LDS musical artists these days, anyway? At one time, Deseret Book would put the modern artists on a contract to produce CD's and Tapes and Songbooks.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

"The wise man has the power" -- adapted from What A Fool Believes -- The Doobie Brothers
Carburettor
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

Post by Carburettor »

SilentDawning wrote: 07 Jun 2024, 17:38 I am interested in the artist that makes you cringe Carburettor. Care to share?
It seems we have a common dislike, SilentDawning.

My appreciation for faith-affirming music was forever tainted when I eventually decided how manipulative the following video (and accompanying music) from my youth had been: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKDNb9pbYU ("Families are Forever"). Little wonder the Church ditched it.

I spent years believing I was feeling the Spirit when I listened to the likes of the Seminary compilation "Like Unto Us" and "Saturday's Warrior." As far as I am concerned, it wasn't the Spirit. It was simply a set of contrived music and lyrics that played on my emotions — just a bunch of catchy tunes paired with a gospel message to increase the impact. If we are totally honest, we might conclude there's an element of deceit involved there.

In my opinion, such music is a driver for the "Disneyfication" of the gospel. It contributes to my feelings of cynicism, and it leaves me cold. No thank you, Janice Kapp Perry.

Everyone else is welcome to it — and I respect the right of others to love it — but it's dead to me.

I have experienced stronger emotional feelings obsessing over epic tracks by popular artists on every type of theme, most of which definitely haven't been faith-affirming. :think:
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

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Just curious:

Why do you see deceit in that song?
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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DarkJedi
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

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I'm not going to answer for Carburettor, but I have similar feeling about "I'll Build You a Rainbow." I agree with the assertion the song was used to play on emotions and conflate that emotion with "the Spirit." I think people have enough trouble discerning which feelings are actually the Holy Spirit and which are just emotions (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar). I struggled with this for many years, and to some extent I still do. BUT, I have come to recognize what the Spirit usually feels like to me, and it actually has much less to do with emotion and much more to do with peace. I'm still not always sure, but I am sure it's not usually when I am highly (or even moderately) emotional because, for me, emotions have a way of getting in the way of peace. And I'm reasonably sure the Spirit manifests itself differently to different people - but it seldom is related to the kind of emotion related to this particular song. I don't hate the song, the message is beautiful, if only fantasy. I'm not sure our post-mortal spirits have the ability to make rainbows or sunbeams, but I do believe mortal souls can find comfort in believing some natural phenomenon are the result of post-mortals communicating.

There is one song by one of the groups mentioned I do wholeheartedly dislike. I do not like "I Heard Him Come" by Afterglow. This was a very popular song sung as "special music" with some frequency in SM, SC, and other meetings at one point. The general message is fine, and I don't dislike the tune. This is what I don't like:
The rivers crawl to find him
Mountains move
Just to let him through


Really? Where is that found in any scripture? Is it even "doctrinal?" FWIW I do believe Jesus when he said with enough faith we could move mountains - but I also believe you're going to need a shovel. (I also believe that statement to be much more figurative than literal.) I don't believe Jesus moved any literal mountains or that any rivers tried to find Him. That would have made for some interesting Bible (and historical) reading.

On the other hand, I do like "Jesus Was No Ordinary Man." I don't necessarily like everything Janice Kapp Perry wrote (a quick Google search indicates she wrote a lot more than I was aware of) but that one does speak to me.

So, like Carb, I am not a fan of church or church related music designed to play on our emotions (and maybe especially to play on the emotions of our young people who are having enough trouble sorting out the whole emotion thing to begin with). Going back to the hymnbook and SD's question, I think hymns belong in the hymnbook. I believe there are other outlets for other spiritual music.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
Old-Timer
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Re: New LDS hymnbook

Post by Old-Timer »

Deceit is intentional dishonesty. I don’t like the song, for the same reasons you stated about the Spirit working differently for different people, but I hesitate to call it deceitful. Different people, different perspectives.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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