Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Public forum to discuss interesting and helpful books.
Roy
Posts: 6912
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by Roy »

This Blog post was shared with an LDS Facebook group. It shares the experiences of a member that struggled/struggles with scrupulosity

https://medium.com/@mikielizahansen/rel ... 5fc37dded1

In our church, we are averse to blaming the church leadership for anything. We blame members (either individually or collectively) or church culture or anything else short of the leadership. I am happy to see that this blog post is slightly more direct in calling the church out (while also referencing "some members" and "church culture").

"While the Church has so many merits, there are a few things we’re still working through. Addressing Religious OCD is one of them. While nobody intends it, many of the stories and anecdotes some members share over the pulpit can actually discourage healthy spirituality and encourage OCD-type behavior. Our church culture takes the idea of exact obedience and staying on the “strait and narrow” quite far — in my opinion, a bit too far — and that certainly affects our spiritual mentality."
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7887
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by DarkJedi »

Good article Roy. As I read I recognized many of the behaviors is people I know and even some in myself (although for the most part past tense).
Our church culture takes the idea of exact obedience and staying on the “strait and narrow” quite far — in my opinion, a bit too far — and that certainly affects our spiritual mentality.
I couldn't agree with this more. I also really like this quote from the article (and it is a theme from Terryl and Fiona Givens in All Things New)
In Church culture, we place a lot of emphasis on “worthiness” and “cleanliness”, implying that if we sin, we are “dirty” or “undeserving” of God’s love. While we don’t doctrinally believe that we must earn the grace of God or His love, it can sure feel like it depending on who’s talking at the pulpit. Unfortunately, this belief often comes out as feelings of self loathing and shame when we feel like we don’t measure up.
Let go of the “worthiness” rhetoric. Know that you’re worthy of God’s love and grace, even in sin. Try not to see sin vs. good works as weights on a scale. What matters is your spiritual trajectory and the intent of your heart. God knows you’re trying; that’s all He wants from you.
I have had personal experience with this letting go, and it is extremely freeing.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
AmyJ
Posts: 1153
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by AmyJ »

Another perspective that I see about this topic is that "the church" as an organization "sold their narrative" of being "chosen" and "the source of Truth" so well and so often that an individual's worth gets anchored in "the church" and the individual's standing "in the church" gains more weight then is helpful.
I think it is an unanticipated consequence of church teachings, the understanding of concepts taught and fostered in and by the church and the culture the church creates.

In a sense, this problem illustrates that the church culture is "a victim of its own success" in selling the idea that the church is the "Purity Divine Arbitrator" and getting people to view themselves as "not worthy" and "not clean" and "unable to be individual Purity Divine arbitrators" themselves.
It [Religious OCD - obsession with spiritual cleanliness] makes you believe that unless you are perfectly sinless at all times, you are unworthy of God’s love or help.
For me, it was less about "worth" and more about "explicit rules/understanding of how God worked" up until "God doesn't explicitly, formulaically work that way [and I should have known better then to expect that]".

During my faith transition, I didn't know what was "Divine/of God" and what was truly "Pure" (and what really mattered). So, while "waiting for further light and knowledge from God [I am still not sure how much of that is daring bravado towards God to "show up" and humble hopefulness]", I wound up leaning into "Learning how to be Human" and "Charity/LovingKindess" as a survival coping mechanism. I didn't have what it took to sort out "Divinity" and a lot of sources that I had been taught were "Pure" were not, so I leaned into doing what I could do - be a better Human, and try to show LovingKindess (towards myself and others).
NOTE: I still don't know what is worthy of being called "Divine" and/or "Godly". I still get fussed at periodically for my "feigned ignorance - denial of what I once knew as true" as if it was a deliberate, "sinful" choice instead of a cautious, deliberate attempt to understand God". Judgers are going to judge (I was one, I know).
User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7887
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by DarkJedi »

I think another thing I really appreciate about this blog is that the author (Miki Eliza) is a self proclaimed active member of the church but none of the answers to what to do about religious OCD are "pray more" (or "pray it away") or "read the Book of Mormon" (or scripture in general). I'm not saying those things might not help, and I don't think the author necessarily means it won't help some people either, but for most that's not the answer. The author suggests things that are much more secular and "real" (such as therapy, letting go, and possibly even meds). I have read several articles about anxiety related to church over the past few years (being the parent of a now young adult who suffered(s) from church anxiety) and all of them written by members (including church leaders and church member therapists) suggest more prayer, more scripture (especially the BoM), and more service. From my own perspective I see this religious OCD and church/religious anxiety to be very closely related. In my experience, more prayer, more BoM, and more "service" (AKA free labor) are not the answer as much as the things this blog suggests.

I have only recently realized my own current activity level in the church (I haven't attended in many months) is more related to anxiety than anything else. I don't think the church (or its leadership, especially local) is well suited or equipped for dealing with this among its members.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
Arrakeen
Posts: 258
Joined: 25 Aug 2018, 18:49

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by Arrakeen »

"Obedience is the first law of heaven" is what I always think of with regards to this topic. In the church we put WAY too much emphasis on trying to perfectly follow rules, even when doing so is damaging to our own mental health.

Scrupulosity is one of the biggest things that made my mission miserable. I have always been a rule-following, letter of the law kind of person, and the worthiness rhetoric in the mission environment took that trait of mine to dangerous levels. The mission is extremely focused on exact obedience almost to the exclusion of everything else.

In discussions about obedience we were always presented with extreme examples of missionaries getting attacked by crocodiles, being murdered, or meeting some other catastrophe because they went to the beach, stayed out past 9:00, didn't stay within sight of their companion, etc. But I feel like the scare tactic is completely ignored by the disobedient types while driving the already obedient ones insane with the obsession to be more "exactly" obedient. Reading the white handbook out loud every morning and carrying it around all day makes it seem like what we really worshipped were the rules. In reality whether you wake up at 6:30 or 6:31 doesn't make a big difference in your life. But if your apartment caught fire at 6:31 and you couldn't make it out because you were asleep, there would be some people saying if you had been awake and exercising like you were supposed to you would have been spared.

I think if we are going to fix the culture around "exact obedience" we need to start with the things we teach to missionaries.
User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4891
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by nibbler »

My experiences follow Arrakeen's very closely.
Arrakeen wrote: 17 Mar 2023, 17:18But I feel like the scare tactic is completely ignored by the disobedient types while driving the already obedient ones insane with the obsession to be more "exactly" obedient.
Yes, ironically I think the whole reason behind hammering the rules so hard is to bring the disobedient types in line but the rhetoric we use has more of an effect on people that are already sold on the idea of following all the rules. When it comes to missions, it's almost as if the people that were the happiest were the people that simply didn't care about all the things that we were told were so important. If you cared, you were constantly wracked with guilt.

We're all human and we all make mistakes but the language we use at church doesn't make much allowance for it.

I was surprised to see that the church put out an article about scrupulosity. I gave it a skim, they're pretty spot on in a few areas.
For members of the Church with scrupulosity, obsessive-compulsive anxiety bullies its way into their religious life by relentlessly plaguing them with pathological, toxic guilt and inducing them to believe that this guilt comes from the Spirit.
Unfortunately one thing that's not covered is that church culture is the perfect Petri dish for growing scrupulosity. I'll add a few bullet points to their list of signs of scrupulosity. The ones in the article were more centered on the attitudes of the person experiencing scrupulosity, my list will focus more on the culture in which that person finds themselves.
  • You're given an impossible goal and told that you can meet it if you are obedient enough. You fail to meet the goal.
  • You are constantly told that you need to be more obedient to receive answers to prayers and you don't feel as though your prayers are being answered.
  • You are constantly told that you need to be more obedient to receive blessings and you struggle to feel blessed.
  • You are constantly told that you need to be more obedient in order to find relief from hardships. You don't get relief from hardships.
  • You are indoctrinated with the belief that leaders are more righteous and you've never been called into a leadership position.
  • You haven't heard the word "grace" in church for several years.
  • You are taught that guilty feelings come from the spirit.
  • You are made to feel as though you are never enough, irrespective of how much or how little you're actually doing.
  • You're taught that to partake of the sacrament unworthily will bring damnation to your soul.
  • You're taught that you are lower than the dust of the Earth.
  • You were taught that tithing is fire insurance and paying one penny less than a full 10% is akin to not paying tithing at all.
  • You're taught that commandments are black and white, not ambiguous.
Many of the items on my list are just items from their list but rephrased a little to acknowledge that the problem isn't just with the individual, it's also with a culture that's obsessed with obedience. I hear at least one of those every single Sunday and I'll often hear many of those multiple times on any given Sunday. Is it a wonder that people develop scrupulosity?

Some people are going to gravitate towards scrupulosity, it's a part of their nature, others will be led to it by our culture. I do like that the articles acknowledge scrupulosity and give people guidance. Ultimately the person experiencing scrupulosity needs a healthier mindset, a way out. Unfortunately it's extremely hard to pull yourself out of that spiral when you find yourself in a community that practically insists that no, trying to get out is wrong, scrupulosity is how you're supposed to be doing it.
This is the Way.
User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7887
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by DarkJedi »

I agree Arrakeen and Nibbler. I also think "we" (as a church) tend to throw Satan's influence in for good measure sometimes. RMN has been known to talk about Satan, almost as if he knows him. Just for the record, I don't believe there actually is a Satan, and if there were I don't think a loving and just God/Father would give this devil free rein over our thoughts while limiting his own such influence. Nevertheless, I think part of our scrupulosity or religious OCD issues are tied back to Satan somewhat frequently by members (even just yesterday in our stake conference). If someone with scrupulosity believes as we're taught in the temple that if we don't live up to very covenant made in the temple we are, as Satan himself says there, under Satan's power. Thus not only do we fail as outlined by Nibbler above, we are further damned and evil (and unloved) because we are under Satan's power and everybody knows God hates Satan and anyone under Satan's power.

I agree with those that believe we make too many connections with Star Wars and the gospel/church. But, if you are a fan of the Mandalorian he clearly suffers from scrupulosity and it is interesting how the writers are addressing it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4891
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by nibbler »

Forgot a few:
  • You're regularly subjected to worthiness interviews.
  • Your ability to prove your worthiness determines your level of participation in the church.
  • Worthiness (or ability to qualify) are very important things.
If you're paying attention at church and if you're trying at all, you're going to be somewhere on the scrupulosity spectrum. It's a given with orthodoxy.
DarkJedi wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 14:10 But, if you are a fan of the Mandalorian
Never heard of it. :P
This is the Way.
Arrakeen
Posts: 258
Joined: 25 Aug 2018, 18:49

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by Arrakeen »

nibbler wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 16:01 Forgot a few:
  • You're regularly subjected to worthiness interviews.
  • Your ability to prove your worthiness determines your level of participation in the church.
  • Worthiness (or ability to qualify) are very important things.
If you're paying attention at church and if you're trying at all, you're going to be somewhere on the scrupulosity spectrum. It's a given with orthodoxy.
DarkJedi wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 14:10 But, if you are a fan of the Mandalorian
Never heard of it. :P
I would add:
  • You are taught that you need to be wary of your thoughts, and that “bad thoughts” are sins that need to be repented of.
A huge part of OCD is intrusive thoughts and the compulsions performed in an effort to fight the anxiety caused by those thoughts. The more you try to fight, the stronger those obsessive thoughts can become. If you believe those unwanted thoughts are sins, it will cause more anxiety and feed the cycle.

And most of the time the “bad thoughts” we refer to are completely ordinary things like a teenager or young adult having sexual urges.
User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7887
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Religious OCD: Medium Blog Post

Post by DarkJedi »

Arrakeen wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 19:57
nibbler wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 16:01 Forgot a few:
  • You're regularly subjected to worthiness interviews.
  • Your ability to prove your worthiness determines your level of participation in the church.
  • Worthiness (or ability to qualify) are very important things.
If you're paying attention at church and if you're trying at all, you're going to be somewhere on the scrupulosity spectrum. It's a given with orthodoxy.
DarkJedi wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 14:10 But, if you are a fan of the Mandalorian
Never heard of it. :P
I would add:
  • You are taught that you need to be wary of your thoughts, and that “bad thoughts” are sins that need to be repented of.
A huge part of OCD is intrusive thoughts and the compulsions performed in an effort to fight the anxiety caused by those thoughts. The more you try to fight, the stronger those obsessive thoughts can become. If you believe those unwanted thoughts are sins, it will cause more anxiety and feed the cycle.

And most of the time the “bad thoughts” we refer to are completely ordinary things like a teenager or young adult having sexual urges.
I know "fringe" religions like ours often take obscure scripture and make those a focus of what they believe. An example for us would be baptism for the dead which gets a passing and obtuse reference once in the Bible - yet it's a major part of our beliefs. There are a couple similar examples with the Jehovah's Witnesses. The idea that our thoughts condemn us is another such example - really only mentioned in Alma - yet it is preached in the church. Another example from Alma is the idea that sexual sin is second only to murder in seriousness (other interpretations of what he was actually talking about notwithstanding) and again only found there - but countless bishops and stake presidents have latched on to that. I agree that it does affect OCD/scrupulosity behaviors in the church and contributes to anxiety and angst even among those not necessarily overtly OCD. Part of that letting go in the original article is letting go of such "out there" ideas, and that can be tough. For me, I have let go of the idea that every word in scripture is the word of God, and in particular I don't agree with much of what is written in Alma. But because that works for me doesn't mean it works for everybody (or anybody else).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
Post Reply