On Apologizing

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Re: On Apologizing

Post by Old-Timer »

The best apology is changed behavior. Without that, it is just meaningless words.

(I am not demeaning verbal apologies by saying that. I just am making an important point.)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: On Apologizing

Post by AmyJ »

I apologize when:
a) I have not lived up to my values and I know it (required).
b) I am sorry about choices in that area (required).
c) I have a plan I have started implementing on how to change those choices.
d) I am building bridges of connection with an individual.

Points A and B are required, Points C and D are optional.
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Re: On Apologizing

Post by SilentDawning »

DarkJedi wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 07:14 Wasn't it Oaks who also said something to the effect that the church doesn't apologize? I agree with what you said as to why. I also kept track of the Pope's trip to Canada and his apologies to the native peoples. While not well received as a whole (some apparently want more or think an apology is not enough) at the same time it did gain him and the Catholic Church some mileage and it was accepted by some. I wonder if our church leaders took anything away from that?
This gets to the heart of why I'm not fully active anymore. I really did believe the church line with all my heart. When I was a missionary, I believed I could baptize 200 people in one swoop just like at the Waters of Mormon in the Book of Mormon. When Church leaders behaved more temporally and didn't have the same can-do, miracle-expecting vision (associated with my getting on a mission in the face of financial obstacles), it hurt my testimony. When they didn't apologize fully when they made mistakes in an adoption they fumbled, it hurt my testimony.

I personally believe that if the church claims to have a divine commission, it should behave, as an organization, the same way the Savior, or a very righteous person would. And righteous people do make amends and apologize for mistakes. They don't proceed with an arrogant "We don't apologize" approach.

Interesting, a friend of mine interviewed for a management position with the temporal church, and turned it down due to money. But I made the comment to him that it's not good to mix the temporal with the spiritual in church matters. I stopped short of quoting one person I met on my mission who said "If you do business with the church, keep one hand on your testimony and the other hand on your wallet". That sounds harsh so I hope I don't get moderated :| But I think it describes the problem all organizations probably have with idealistic members who believe the miraculous stories of their religion when the church acts to serve the temporal interests first.

But back to apologizing, is it unreasonable to expect the church to be as apologetic and repentant as a righteous person would given its larger than life truth claims and proclaimed divine commission?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young
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Re: On Apologizing

Post by nibbler »

A part of me sees it as an issue of leading by example.

1 Peter 2:21 - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1 Corinthians 11:1 - Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Titus 2:7 - In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
John 13:15 - For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Maybe someone could interpret this very literally and say that Jesus never apologized or had a need to repent.

The church ain't Jesus. If the organization makes a mistake they should own up to it, make amends, and change. Show the way to live through example.
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