Watcher wrote: ↑15 Aug 2022, 17:09
It is my understanding that patriarchal blessings are not revelation for the general church. I have also speculated that patriarchal blessings can be contingent on various factors. I speculate that this is a primary reason that blessings given to an individual should not be made public. Like you – I have also wondered about human errors. I know I have made many myself in pursuit of magnifying my callings and priesthood responsibilities.
If PB are revelation at all, and I have my serious doubts, they are certainly only meant for the individual. I believe the reason members are discouraged from sharing has nothing to do with sacred things and little to do with things meant only for them. I suspect the main reason we're discouraged from sharing is that everybody will realize how generic and alike they really are. And, not sharing protects the church when those who are blessed to see the second coming in the flesh (or any other "out there" promise) doesn't happen. Mine appears to be longer than most I've seen, but you could slap any other name on there and it would be just as applicable - despite its length, it's pretty generic and I bet very similar to many others given by that same patriarch around the same time.
As to human errors, yes, we all make them, we're human. I am willing to own up to my mistakes and take responsibility for them. Most church leaders are not, probably because that would demonstrate fallibility. I know I'm not infallible, many do not know that they are also not infallible and try to hide behind the "cloak of the priesthood." There's that old saying "Catholics say the pope is infallible but don’t really believe it; Mormons say the prophet is fallible but don’t really believe it." Beyond Uchtdorf's hint of the idea mistakes may have been made, the church could gain a lot of traction by admitting it and its leaders are not always right and sometimes they don't treat people (or groups of people) right.
I am a little curious considering you opinion as posted on this forum. Do you believe that such errors (or BS as you have noted) will have any effect on anyone’s standing beyond this life? If not (thinking that such is consistint with your thoughts) – why do you bring it up? Why are you concerned?
It's not the human errors that are BS, it's the apologetics. I have no problem with apologists (defined as defenders of the faith) themselves, but I also understand why some (like Terryl Givens ) eschew the label. Like everything else, I can believe what apologists say or not - I have free will in that respect and I exercise it. The problem I really have is with some of the apologetics (not apologists per se) themselves. Let's take a fictional modern Job as an example. Let's say our Job consistently does everything he's supposed to do, multiple daily prayers, family prayer, FHE, accepting any and all callings and doing his best, fasting more than just fast Sunday, reading the BoM every day, going to the temple regularly and doing work for his own ancestors, paying a generous tithe on more than gross and generous with other offerings as well - you name it, he does it, the truest and bluest of all church all the time Mormons. Then a big bump in the road comes along, let' say he loses his job and can't find one on which he can support his family. And for the sake of argument, let's say he does take multiple minimum wage jobs where he's working 7 days a week 12-18 hours a day (he's doing what he can). His bishop's advice is continue doing what he's doing (including all the church stuff, but especially fasting, prayer, and reading the BoM) and he will be blessed with a job. Ditto from the SP. Our Job has faith that they are correct. This goes on for over a year, while he's already been doing all of these things leading up to this time all of his life (including of course being an Eagle Scout, serving a mission, and marrying a worthy woman in the temple). What is the likely response he'll get from the True Believing Mormon (TBM)? "You're not doing enough" and/or "You're not doing it right." (Don't try to tell us that's not true, more than one of us here have been there and done that.) That guy is going to believe some combination of he's done something wrong or offended God in some way, that there's some reason he is being cursed, that he is unworthy of God's blessings, God does not love him, and he's a worthless piece of crap and similar thoughts. He'll eventually come to the realization that all of the prayer and fasting and reading the BoM and paying tens (or hundreds) of thousands in tithing, etc., do not bring blessings at all and God and the church are not what he thought they were. But his TBM friends (and maybe his wife who is seeing all this first hand and also suffering) say, "Maybe the answer answer to your prayer was no or not yet" and a myriad of other BS excuses (that's what they are, BS, because the TBM can't admit to himself that it isn't so and it doesn't really work that way because he hasn't had the experience).
The question here, although misconstruing what I said, is do I believe people will be held responsible for their errors in this life (or their standing in this life)? My answer is no, as I have previously stated I believe God neither blesses nor curses people in this life. Members and leaders on the other hand can be very judgmental. While I'm at it, I also hope (I usually say believe but it's really more of a hope than a belief, I'm just speaking Mormonese) the atonement of Jesus Christ to be universal and it won't affect their standing in any future state either. I bring it up because if I could spare anyone from enduring the extreme pains of a faith crisis, I would, and if apologists would just be honest and not make BS excuses there would be fewer people who do suffer.
Old Timer uses a Harry Potter analogy sometimes. Harry Potter could see thestrals, but most others could not. It is explained that only those who had seen death and had an emotional connection to it could see thestrals. Those who had not could not see the thestrals and some didn't even believe they exist or doubted that those who could see them actually saw them. You have not given any indication here that you have experienced a crisis of faith with it's accompanying deep, dark pain (there are levels of the dark night of the soul). Most of us here see the thestrals, I understand why you don't/can't. Our job here is not to try to convince anyone they can't see the thestrals or that the thestrals are something they aren't, nor is it to convince those who can't see the thestrals that they actually exist. What we do is empathize (and sympathize) and validate. We're not here to convince anybody they aren't experiencing or didn't experience anything they are/did. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen to me, and just because it happened to you when you added X+Y and got Z doesn't mean it's going to work the same way with me. I also have not gone to a grove of trees and asked God to forgive me and then seen a vision of God (or Gods). That doesn't mean it didn't happen to Joseph Smith (or at least JS believed it happened whether I do or not).
I apologize if these questions bother you – I am attempting to understand the logic behind your thinking. Thanks for your efforts to converse with me. I find you to be interesting.
I am not that thin skinned. Not everything is logical Spock (or Tuvok or T'Pal). There are many things we humans can't explain with science or faith. I would guess that Vulcans are resistant to or immune from Jedi mind tricks. Few humans are, thus apologetics (and the church itself) can thrive. It's not well well known, and it's only inferred and not depicted in movies and TV, but the Jedi mind trick is temporary. In a short while the individuals who are vulnerable and victims of such tricks end up wondering what the heck they're doing an why.