TR, Goals, & Tithing

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
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nibbler
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by nibbler » 30 Mar 2021, 11:15

In that instance it was a stake conference with visiting area or general authorities, can't remember which.

Not to be too cynical about it but I believe they work the angle where a person feels special because someone regarded as special visits them. Where hopefully that serves as enough of a catalyst for them to return.

It's pretty common in my area for visiting authorities to visit a select few inactive families while they're in town for stake conference.

It's also common for members of the stake presidency to go on "splits" with members of the bishopric and for members of the bishopric to go on "splits" with members of the EQ presidency at regular intervals. Maybe you got one of those and it just happened to line up with general conference.

I'm guessing the goal is to employ the classic missionary resolve concerns thing to get you to commit to doing something you're not currently doing, in this case getting that TR.

NoahVail
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by NoahVail » 30 Mar 2021, 23:16

Roy wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 15:31
I have felt that I stood the best chance of being permitted to participate in my children's milestone/rite of passage events if I . . .
I think this confuses me. What sort of events (that included your children) could you be excluded from?
Roy wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 15:31
Today I received a call from a church brother asking if I could receive ward/stake church leadership representatives into my home this week.
No.

Roy
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by Roy » 31 Mar 2021, 09:54

NoahVail wrote:
30 Mar 2021, 23:16
I think this confuses me. What sort of events (that included your children) could you be excluded from?
The post I linked to from 2013 was prior to the baptism of my eldest child. My father baptized me and I had always envisioned baptizing my children. I would have been disappointing to not be able to perform this ordinance and the bishop has fairly wide latitude in deciding if a person without a temple recommend can participate.

More recently has been the priesthood ordination of my son. I received my priesthood at the hands of my father and I like to see his name on my priesthood line of authority. I would like to be able to pass on this "tradition" to my son. Once again, priesthood ordination happens under the keys of the bishop and at his discretion.

Looking forward I would to potentially attend my children's first temple endowment ceremony (potentially being the "escort") and/or temple sealing. I understand that I would need to have a temple recommend for these last examples.

I consider all these to be milestones and rites of passage for my children. I suppose that even if I were not able to participate in a priesthood capacity I could still participate in some capacity (as an observer and cheerleader perhaps) but that would be a letdown for me.
I have felt that I stood the best chance of being permitted to participate in my children's milestone/rite of passage events if I . . .
I have presented myself as a man of damaged and struggling faith but still humble. I do not want to be seen as hard hearted, recalcitrant, obstinate, or defiant. I have done this to keep my options open to the best of my ability. For example, I feel that I could currently get a TR rather quickly by just beginning to pay tithing. Unfortunately, this approach is not without downsides. For example, when there is a new stake effort for every member to have a TR then I end up on the short list as low hanging fruit/easiest possible conversion from non-TR holding member to TR holding member. :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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nibbler
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by nibbler » 31 Mar 2021, 10:20

Roy wrote:
31 Mar 2021, 09:54
More recently has been the priesthood ordination of my son. I received my priesthood at the hands of my father and I like to see his name on my priesthood line of authority. I would like to be able to pass on this "tradition" to my son. Once again, priesthood ordination happens under the keys of the bishop and at his discretion.
So this means hanging on until ordination to the MP, right? I think the AP doesn't come into play when people talk about their lines of authority.

Roy
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by Roy » 01 Apr 2021, 08:56

nibbler wrote:
31 Mar 2021, 10:20
So this means hanging on until ordination to the MP, right?
Right.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

NoahVail
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by NoahVail » 01 Apr 2021, 10:39

Roy wrote:
31 Mar 2021, 09:54
I would have been disappointing to not be able to perform this ordinance and the bishop has fairly wide latitude in deciding if a person without a temple recommend can participate.

More recently has been the priesthood ordination of my son. I received my priesthood at the hands of my father and I like to see his name on my priesthood line of authority. I would like to be able to pass on this "tradition" to my son. Once again, priesthood ordination happens under the keys of the bishop and at his discretion.
I have never heard of a bishop excluding a priesthood holder from participating in a local ordinance, for anything less than an actual grievous sin. I wasn't even aware it was on the table.

I suspect one factor is that I live in a region dominated by converts. I'm fairly typical where my only member-relatives are my adult kids. That makes me ~100% of their Church influence, meaning that their activity isn't likely to exceed my own.

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DarkJedi
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Apr 2021, 06:43

NoahVail wrote:
01 Apr 2021, 10:39
I have never heard of a bishop excluding a priesthood holder from participating in a local ordinance, for anything less than an actual grievous sin. I wasn't even aware it was on the table.
Unfortunately it does happen, good old leadership roulette. I'm not sure if the handbook revisions have changed any of this but some of the old wording referenced being temple worthy, which some interpreted as actually having a recommend. And as I recall there was a different standard for baptism as opposed to confirmation as well as a different standard for standing in the circle for things like ordination as opposed to being the voice.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DarkJedi
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Apr 2021, 06:46

Roy wrote:
31 Mar 2021, 09:54
NoahVail wrote:
30 Mar 2021, 23:16
I think this confuses me. What sort of events (that included your children) could you be excluded from?
The post I linked to from 2013 was prior to the baptism of my eldest child. My father baptized me and I had always envisioned baptizing my children. I would have been disappointing to not be able to perform this ordinance and the bishop has fairly wide latitude in deciding if a person without a temple recommend can participate.

More recently has been the priesthood ordination of my son. I received my priesthood at the hands of my father and I like to see his name on my priesthood line of authority. I would like to be able to pass on this "tradition" to my son. Once again, priesthood ordination happens under the keys of the bishop and at his discretion.

Looking forward I would to potentially attend my children's first temple endowment ceremony (potentially being the "escort") and/or temple sealing. I understand that I would need to have a temple recommend for these last examples.

I consider all these to be milestones and rites of passage for my children. I suppose that even if I were not able to participate in a priesthood capacity I could still participate in some capacity (as an observer and cheerleader perhaps) but that would be a letdown for me.
I have felt that I stood the best chance of being permitted to participate in my children's milestone/rite of passage events if I . . .
I have presented myself as a man of damaged and struggling faith but still humble. I do not want to be seen as hard hearted, recalcitrant, obstinate, or defiant. I have done this to keep my options open to the best of my ability. For example, I feel that I could currently get a TR rather quickly by just beginning to pay tithing. Unfortunately, this approach is not without downsides. For example, when there is a new stake effort for every member to have a TR then I end up on the short list as low hanging fruit/easiest possible conversion from non-TR holding member to TR holding member. :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:
I have said this previously, but not in a while. I was in full faith crisis mode when many of things were happening with my children. Some of them didn't happen because of my objection but some did (like my son receiving the MP and endowment before his mission). Not being part of those is one of the biggest regrets I have.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

NoahVail
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by NoahVail » 02 Apr 2021, 08:16

DarkJedi wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 06:46
I have said this previously, but not in a while. I was in full faith crisis mode when many of things were happening with my children. Some of them didn't happen because of my objection but some did (like my son receiving the MP and endowment before his mission). Not being part of those is one of the biggest regrets I have.
I don't know the details of your crises but I can certainly sympathize.

My crises have always been more about my relationship with my ward than with my faith. I believe we'd be more active now, if we had an alternative path to Church programs than thru our ward/stake.

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Katzpur
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Re: TR, Goals, & Tithing

Post by Katzpur » 02 Apr 2021, 11:30

It seems to me, more and more all the time, that a temple recommend is being required for all sorts of things other than admission to the temple. I would even consider letting mine lapse, except that I probably wouldn't be able to continue in my calling at the jail. I think of it as my jail recommend. How crazy is that?
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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