New faith crisis podcast

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churchistrue
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Re: New faith crisis podcast

Post by churchistrue » 16 Jun 2020, 19:11

Roy wrote:
14 Jun 2020, 13:48
Thank you for giving of your time for this project. I am impressed at the organization and thoughtful way that you are using to approach this.

I like miniseries or trilogies. They have a well defined story arc. I dislike when a series goes on and on to morph into something very different from the original storyline just because the show wasn't cancelled yet and so they had to shoehorn in yet another season. It appears to me that you have something similar on your hands. It is a series with a clear arc and direction. This can help your podcast from meandering and turning into something different then when you started.

I jotted down some notes while listening to part 1.

I like that this is an introduction of sorts and gives your personal and lived experience. Nobody can invalidate your experience.

You had stated I believe that Hugh Nibley was the father of apologists. I am not sure that is true. There seems to be others in the church that predate Nibley and certainly apologists in broader Christianity. Many of the early church fathers could be classified as apologists. I do imagine that Hugh Nibley is probably a well known church apologist and someone that many church members would be familiar with as a sort of personification of the work of FARMS and FAIR Mormon. I imagine that was your intent - to help people understand the role of an apologist.

Overall you had a great explanation of Apologists generally and I liked that you took note of apologists outside of our faith.

I liked the explanation of the "shelf" metaphor and how things that are not well explained or do not seem to make sense can build up over time.

I enjoyed the discussion of faith as a choice and how most psychologists would not frame beliefs as choices. I personally compare my own faith crisis to the stages of grief in that there were powerful forces operating at a level below my conscious mind compelling me forward. I can make choices during the grief process, for example - a positive choice is to not cut yourself off from your support system when going through grief. However, I cannot choose to stay in a particular stage of grief indefinitely or just skip forward to the more peaceful acceptance part. The choices made seem very limited and at times I was made to feel like I was a passenger on a rollercoaster going along for the ride. This was uncomfortable for me as I had based much of my identity of being "in control" of my destiny. I feel that the subconscious forces at play in the grief process and the faith crisis process are similar and that a faith crisis is a form of grief.

I liked the Richard Bushman quote about the picture of the young woman and the older woman. I imagine after seeing the older woman it must be so invalidating for people to try to convince you that the old woman isn't there, or that to see her is to succumb to Satan's tricks, or that you can just choose to not see her.

I liked that you own those places in your story where you take a leap of faith. That is rather personal but not necessarily something that everyone might feel comfortable with. Sometimes our journey allows us to take a leap of faith, sometimes our journey requires us to take a leap of faith, and sometimes our journey prohibits a leap of faith.

In listening to the story about Brother Peck, I feel sorry for him. I imagine that there are large pressures put upon him. It is one thing to say "I believe in evolution and I see no contradiction between revealed science and the gospel." It is quite another thing to say "XYZ church leader was wrong in their statement about evolution or the age of the earth etc but I still believe in the gospel." Many of us church members have some level of pressure that the church could apply towards us if something we said publicly was not well received. I understand that those on church payroll have a much greater level of pressure and tightrope walking. Bro. Bushman is one that I have seen be uncommonly forthright in his words. I imagine that he feels empowered to say some things whereas some others might not feel empowered.

I liked that you brought up that our current situation is not unique to Mormonism. Many religions are struggling with faith crises right now.

I loved the part about religion being possibly a human "bottom up" endeavor to draw closer unto and please God - rather than a top down imposed/revealed structure by God. This to me is perhaps the major paradigm change in your belief system and one that would be fairly antithetical to what is taught most Sundays at church.

Finally, there is much good in the concept of "redeeming the world" or making heaven on earth by collectively deciding to do good. I worry that this might frustrate me in my effort to StayLDS. There is so much good that we could be doing in the world and unfortunately much of our labors seem to be inwardly facing. We serve the church and we serve our fellow members. We do not seem to get outside of that internal circle as much as I might like.

I am excited to listen to the other parts.
Thanks, Roy! Great comments. Yes the "bottom up" thing is something even the other nuanced LDS are telling me is pushing things a little. But that's how it most makes sense to me, and I think it can work.
sharing my view "metaphorical Mormonism" at my blog www.churchistrue.com

churchistrue
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Re: New faith crisis podcast

Post by churchistrue » 26 Jul 2020, 16:07

Anyone listening?

I've now done 8 of the 12 episodes. Last one was on Polygamy. Which was very tough subject, but a lot of people said it was helpful.
sharing my view "metaphorical Mormonism" at my blog www.churchistrue.com

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LookingHard
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Re: New faith crisis podcast

Post by LookingHard » 27 Jul 2020, 06:46

I got behind on my podcasts and just yesterday cleared the last of them. Don't take this as your podcast is "last on my list". Actually the opposite. I want to carefully listen to each one as it is probably my one last attempt at keeping activity in the church (something my wife would REALLY like).

So I will be intently listening to them and it may take me a while to listen to all that you have put forward. I appreciate the effort you have put forward and I am very much interested in really understanding your positions and views.

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DarkJedi
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Re: New faith crisis podcast

Post by DarkJedi » 29 Jul 2020, 05:24

Historical issues weren't my faith crisis thing, for me it was more "doctrine" or dogma. However, I do recognize that things like polygamy are an issue for most in faith crisis and there is some crossover. Polygamy was not one of my issues but I understand why people have issues with it and agree with you churchistrue that it was/is not of God. It is however alive and well in the subtext of the church and people struggle with that.

I have fallen behind on the podcasts but I do see the value in them, particularly for those who struggle with many of the issues you have addressed - historicity (BoM, BoA and JST), polygamy, etc.

I'm sure like all of us you're a busy guy and you have your stage on your website. At the same time I think you have a lot to offer people who ask the same kinds of questions here and I wish we heard more from you - even if it's "I get your concerns and a few months ago I did a podcast on polygamy - you might find it beneficial."
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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churchistrue
Posts: 114
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 09:19
Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah
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Re: New faith crisis podcast

Post by churchistrue » 29 Jul 2020, 07:59

DarkJedi wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 05:24
Historical issues weren't my faith crisis thing, for me it was more "doctrine" or dogma. However, I do recognize that things like polygamy are an issue for most in faith crisis and there is some crossover. Polygamy was not one of my issues but I understand why people have issues with it and agree with you churchistrue that it was/is not of God. It is however alive and well in the subtext of the church and people struggle with that.

I have fallen behind on the podcasts but I do see the value in them, particularly for those who struggle with many of the issues you have addressed - historicity (BoM, BoA and JST), polygamy, etc.

I'm sure like all of us you're a busy guy and you have your stage on your website. At the same time I think you have a lot to offer people who ask the same kinds of questions here and I wish we heard more from you - even if it's "I get your concerns and a few months ago I did a podcast on polygamy - you might find it beneficial."
Thanks DarkJedi, I'll try to hang around more often.
sharing my view "metaphorical Mormonism" at my blog www.churchistrue.com

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