How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

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Arrakeen
Posts: 139
Joined: 25 Aug 2018, 18:49

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Arrakeen » 05 Jun 2020, 07:44

I never saw the point of going to conference in-person. Doesn’t exactly strike me as entertaining. With the enthusiasm over home church, I’m expecting lots of talks about the importance of attending church meetings.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1999
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Minyan Man » 05 Jun 2020, 07:45

If you go by the Stock Market this morning, it's up 700+ points. I asked a friend of mine, does this mean:
Covid 19 is gone forever,
everyone is back to work,
the economy is back to normal,
civil unrest is gone & in the history books,
China is a friend again.

I agree that the church should be abundantly cautious.

My friends, we live in interesting times.

grobert93
Posts: 134
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 16:05

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by grobert93 » 05 Jun 2020, 07:58

Arrakeen wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 07:44
I never saw the point of going to conference in-person. Doesn’t exactly strike me as entertaining. With the enthusiasm over home church, I’m expecting lots of talks about the importance of attending church meetings.
Ha, ha! This is hilarious because we know it's true.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1999
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Minyan Man » 06 Jun 2020, 07:34

I wonder how tithes & other offerings have changed during the Covid Virus?
I'm sure this is one of the most important metrics of the church now.
I can't imagine what the fixed costs of the church are. They have to be substantial.
These are the costs operating the organization that don't change with activity.
For example, utility costs, maintenance costs, wages & benefits, etc

Be prepared, there will probably be talks & lessons related to offerings & donations in the near future.

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by DarkJedi » 06 Jun 2020, 14:51

Minyan Man wrote:
06 Jun 2020, 07:34
I wonder how tithes & other offerings have changed during the Covid Virus?
I'm sure this is one of the most important metrics of the church now.
I can't imagine what the fixed costs of the church are. They have to be substantial.
These are the costs operating the organization that don't change with activity.
For example, utility costs, maintenance costs, wages & benefits, etc

Be prepared, there will probably be talks & lessons related to offerings & donations in the near future.
Maybe. I have a friend who was recently released as financial clerk. He says almost everybody in the ward pays tithing online these days. Counting the envelopes from those who don't takes all of five minutes. I don't know the true stats during this pandemic, and I don't think we ever will because we usually don't, but I wager most people just continued to pay online as usual. We did. There are those who ended up unemployed as a result of the pandemic so there is likely a decrease in tithing in that respect. My own ward was relatively unaffected by unemployment (half my ward is retired anyway).

That said, I'm sure the church's infrastructure is very costly with building maintenance and costs of electricity and HVAC. The church has also likely saved some money though while the buildings have been unoccupied. At least not so many lights on. I wonder if any kind of directive went out to turn off the HVAC timers for when the building is usually occupied? Some places might have just done that on their own, but it makes little sense to be air conditioning an empty building for several hours on a Sunday and for weeknight activities. I'm sure the church still paid the facilities staff, but they are regional and there are relatively few of them these days. I drove by our building one day and there was some sort of contractor there to fix something, I don't know what (we did have some furnace issues this winter). Temples were similarly closed and not running those videos multiple times per day. I would think the font circulation would need to continue.

Our personal electric usage/bill were slightly higher while we were home, which makes sense. Normally the house is empty all day, no lights or TV, etc., but for a few weeks it wasn't that way and there were lights, computers, and TV on much of the day. I "worked from home" and received my regular salary, but I also binge watched, stayed up later, etc. Now that I am back to work in the office I have already seen the decrease in electricity use and hence the bill.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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SilentDawning
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Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by SilentDawning » 07 Jun 2020, 18:01

I think there will be an option not to take the sacrament for cleanliness reasons. People can be authorized to administer the sacrament at home and simply show up for the speakers. Maybe we will go down to one hour church?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Minyan Man » 07 Jun 2020, 18:56

Our Stake sent out a survey asking members to vote on different opinions. Such as:
- When will you feel comfortable about coming back to church?
- Would you feel safe coming back to church?
- Would you feel safe taking the sacrament?
- Should we have just sacrament meeting?
- When should we have children & youth programs at full capacity?
- etc.

I think it's good to ask for the memberships opinion.
Is this happening in other Stakes too?

I hope they share the results.

grobert93
Posts: 134
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 16:05

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by grobert93 » 08 Jun 2020, 07:23

Minyan Man wrote:
07 Jun 2020, 18:56
Our Stake sent out a survey asking members to vote on different opinions. Such as:
- When will you feel comfortable about coming back to church?
- Would you feel safe coming back to church?
- Would you feel safe taking the sacrament?
Growing up as a youth, it was drilled in my head that anyone who was a disciple of Jesus Christ and demonstrated their best imperfect faith in Him would be protected. We were taught that if we gave up career, education and family commitments to attend church every Sunday "no matter what", that God would bless us in ways beyond imaginable. We were also occasionally taught that God protected his places of worship, that he protected the sacred sacrament and essentially that besides obvious health limitations, anyone could take the sacrament and attend church and would be protected, even if "doctors and health professionals" suggested otherwise.

Even on my mission I remember teaching many that god will protect his buildings, that the sacrament is sacred when in God's hands.

It's been a while and I've taken the path of leaving the church for numerous reasons... and now looking back at those claims I was taught, coupled with surveys such as what I'm quoting, really makes me stop and scratch my head.

Why shouldn't we feel comfortable going to church? Isn't church where God blesses us "no matter what"?
Safe taking the sacrament? I would have argued as a TBM a long time ago that of course, God will bless us to not get sick if we are exactly obedient.

It's so crazy how the tables have turned.

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Roy » 08 Jun 2020, 09:26

I definitely agree that I was taught that God would intervene in my life to "bless" me if I did what was right. It was usually taught in a very nebulous fashion that made it very hard to determine clear cause and effect relationships. Part of my challenge in staying LDS has been to reorder my motivations now that I no longer expect tangible blessings from God in exchange for my devotion AND ALSO to continue to attend church where such expectations are taught.

When we were all drinking from a communal cup (pre-1900's), there were people thinking that God would protect them from catching germs from everyone else. The martin and willie handcart companies were promised that God would protect them on their journey if they had faith.

I am glad that it appears that church leaders recognize diversity in how comfortable individual members feel about returning. I am also glad that they are not trying to discredit anyone's faith based on their comfort level or promise them "blessings" if they will just return. This seems like growth to me.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: How will the Church change in light of the Covid Virus?

Post by Minyan Man » 08 Jun 2020, 09:47

Imagine if the Church told the FT Missionaries to disregard common sense, your own inspiration, comfort level or scientific council and
preach the gospel, baptise new converts, hold meetings and God will protect.

I know there were inspirational talks & stories about JS & others who did that back in the day. Some were blessed & others not so much.
I can't imagine what it would be like to have a number of members in a ward infected because we couldn't wait any longer for a meeting.

I'm glad they ask our opinions from time to time. Instead of just saying "thus saith the Lord:..." Or a variation of it.
(I hope this doesn't sound negative or argumentative. It isn't meant to be.)

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