New visitors welcome TV commercials

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DarkJedi
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Jul 2019, 12:37

Roy wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 11:20
In watching the commercial (thank you DJ) it does say "He" can make you a better person. Meaning Jesus.
Good catch, Roy. Frankly, I'm not sure Jesus himself has made me a better person, or even the faith and hope I have in him. From one point of view it is possible, and that is I do believe in Christ's example of loving one another and that's what He wanted from us (which is also of course what Heavenly Father wants from us). But I do appreciate that message, better than the "we can make you a better person."
I also noted that the people in the commercial seemed very diverse. I am sure there are some very diverse wards out there but that has not really been my experience and I was surprised by how many people of color were represented. Not that I am complaining - I just imagine that it was a deliberate choice.
That's my experience as well, but I do live in an area which lacks racial diversity. We have a Latino family in our ward, they've been here about a year for the father's work. Otherwise we're totally white. I also notice that the church tends to like to have people of color in their ads, despite the American church being overwhelmingly white. The "I'm a Mormon" ads were like that and event the commonly used BYU ad (the ones shown during sports) had Stacey Harkey (of Studio C fame and who has since come out as gay) as the lead.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DarkJedi
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Jul 2019, 12:43

felixfabulous wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 07:28
I am of the opinion that the missionary program is answering the questions no one is asking. We are out telling people that we are the true church, we have the legitimate authority and people generally don't care because no one is really talking about that these days. The questions they are asking are "how can I belong to something bigger than myself?" "how can I find a community?" "would being part of a church make my life better?" You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
Good point. Millennials, in particular, do seem to be asking the bolded question more than the seeking the "true church" questions. Millennials (and the next generation) also seem to not be so tied to physical connections, and tweeted or texted "sermons" are probably much more effective than an hour sitting in church at a specific time on a specific day (which sometimes is not in sync with their sleep schedules).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DarkJedi
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Jul 2019, 12:47

Thanks for sharing the Exponent article Nibbler. I agree with it, and could have given some of those responses when people I ran into in the supermarket while inactive would "invite" me back. (There were other issues there, of course - like why in the supermarket when I hadn't seen you in three years yet you know my phone number, email address, and where I live?)

I'm toying with sharing it with my SP, but I'm not sure yet. I like it, I like the message, but maybe it's too pointed and with too many examples. I also think it may deserve it's own thread.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by mom3 » 02 Jul 2019, 14:18

The questions they are asking are "how can I belong to something bigger than myself?" "how can I find a community?" "would being part of a church make my life better?" You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
Queen of Millennial & Religious progression left the following as her final essay before her untimely death a few weeks ago. It's a strong answer to these same questions.

Even though I am not a Millennial - I believe one of the reason's I stay or am drawn to "church" are those same questions. Sometimes I find the answer. Sometimes I am the answer. Most of the time I want to be the answer because I believe in the best natures of us. I still haven't figured out how to do it.

Nibbler - thank you. I am keeping a copy to carry with me.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 218e_story
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Katzpur
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by Katzpur » 02 Jul 2019, 17:51

jamison wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:53
Was I the only one offended by the Church commercial that show the visitors welcome sign on the Church building, and states toward the end: we can make you a better person, and you'll help us become a better church? I know I dont have the quote right, but i thought to myself. I dont feel welcome at church, and I know a lot more people outside the church are better people than some inside the church. My wife is actually the one that brought the last sentence to my attention. It is true that Christ betters people, not the Church. I'm sorry this commercial is repulsive and wrong.
I've seen it, and it really didn't bother me that much, probably because of the very last phrase: "You'll help us become a better church." To me it was saying that we know newcomers can bring something of worth to the table, and that with a give and take, everyone benefits. (Not that it always works that way, but the concept really didn't bother me.)
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

Roy
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by Roy » 03 Jul 2019, 10:00

Thinking about this final tagline also has me remembering something that President Hinkley was fond of saying. "Our position is simply this, we say, you bring all the good that you have, wherever you have acquired it, and see if we may add to it."

I am sure that President Hinkley meant it to be comforting. We are not interested in removing or correcting any of the good that you may already have. We only wish to contribute more good on top of what you now hold. Not a bad message. However there is the implication that whatever good you may have acquired from other sources - We already have that good and more.

In that context, "You'll help us become a better church" is pretty refreshing. Perhaps you have something unique to contribute that we do not already have. Perhaps you are not an interchangeable cog in a machine of cogs - just another soldier or number for the glory of the attendance roster. Perhaps you are an instrument in a divine orchestra. ;)
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by Curt Sunshine » 03 Jul 2019, 19:09

Fwiw, the last two wards I have attended have been reasonably diverse. Not as diverse a source I would like, but reasonably diverse - and accepting (welcoming) of diversity.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Cadence
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by Cadence » 06 Aug 2019, 11:43

I think in some ways the church made me a better person, but I can not think of a way I made the church better


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hawkgrrrl
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by hawkgrrrl » 06 Aug 2019, 12:57

I have mixed reactions to this.
- I agree with nibbler that the church is tougher on its members and less welcome to the fringe members than it is welcoming to converts.
- I do think the church is mostly a positive force for converts in their lives, but there can be an eventual diminishing return, and of course, they were attracted to it because it already resonated on some level (it matched or spoke to their own good desires).

The core problem is that it's one prescription for glasses, and it really does improve things for people who need that specific prescription (for others, not so much), but in time, your prescription changes, and you outgrow the prescription you used to need, or you need progressive lenses, or you develop astigmatism. But if you are born into the church, it may not fit you at all except for the fact that you were raised that way.

It also can erode faith in God for many because once you buy the "one true church" and "all others are an abomination" line, if you have doubts or questions after that, you are going to doubt EVERYTHING religious: God, Jesus, you name it. After all, every other church wasn't ever an alternative. It was an abomination!

Ultimately, I think the correlation effort went further than just the curriculum and budgetary oversight. The church has a very narrow program for human development, and you either fit the mold they are pushing you into, or you are the problem. That just doesn't work for everyone long term. Converts choose it. Those born into it don't.

I do agree that converts make the church better, but really just at the local level. They only make the church (as a whole) better in terms of increasing the numbers, kind of like when the Borg assimilate a planet.

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jamison
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Re: New visitors welcome TV commercials

Post by jamison » 17 Dec 2019, 19:42

:clap: I agree with a lot of what you stated here. The come worship with us for Christmas (Sunday before Christmas)infomercials are terrible since other local churches generally go all out on Christmas services. Our ward is barely mustering up a choir, and we are not ready in the least. I know members in my area that go to midnight mass since the music is spectacular.
"Ignorance, fear, and conflict are the basic elements of everyday consciousness" Marvin Harris -- Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches.

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