FM Changes

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: FM Changes

Post by hawkgrrrl » 26 Jun 2019, 12:55

Minyan Man: Kirton-McConkie would settle that thing so fast, your head would spin. The church would not want the bad PR. However, my guess is that one's standing in the church would be jeopardized by suing it, if not officially, then certainly in some unofficial way. I heard a completely bootleg unofficial reddit story that a GA's widow had put a bunch of furniture on a credit line and asked the church to pay it off (since her dead husband had been receiving a stipend while he was alive). Rather than get into some legal BS, they just paid it. That's the story this rando shared on reddit anyway. He worked in the accounting department for the church.

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DarkJedi
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Re: FM Changes

Post by DarkJedi » 26 Jun 2019, 15:09

Many years ago (around 20) a member slipped on the ice in the church parking lot and was seriously injured. It was regular Sunday church, not a project or anything. The guy missed some work, etc. He owned a small business, an electrician as I recall, and bought his own health insurance and/or paid his own medical bills. He asked the church to pay his medical bills and lost wages. The church refused, telling him they would pay whatever his own insurance didn't pay. He did end up suing, the church did end up settling, tongues wagged, and he and his family eventually left the church (he never returned after the fall). So, I think what others have pointed out here is correct - the church probably won't pay/compensate unless legally forced to do so and most orthodox members will just eat it.

Related, this is why our ward won't do roofing "service" projects any more and haven't for several years (started last bishop, continued with current bishop). They have no bones abut saying a bog part of the reason is liability. The other main reason, of course, is that it's always the same few guys doing the stuff. (We did just recently have a SM talk where the guy extolled the virtues of such projects, to which I say humbug!)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: FM Changes

Post by mom3 » 26 Jun 2019, 15:28

I am well connected with the interfaith community and as a wealthy church we suck. Period. The little local Mom and Pop churches, do need church teams to keep things going. It does save costs, overhead, and give members something to do. They also don't require 10% of their income, plus fast offerings, girls camp, full time missionaries, etc. We do.

My answer is, I don't play. I tithe as I feel fits Jesus' request. I care for the building, as I do any other, I clean up after myself. Beyond that - it ain't my problem. No amount of guilt is going to make me do it.

I will confess that I enjoyed taking my kids to do vacuuming and window washing. It taught them some building respect. So a rotation of volunteers helping paid staff would be nice. But not the rest.

The GA's get two houses. I don't. I will stick to maintaining my home. They can talk to God about how they maintained His.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Cadence
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Re: FM Changes

Post by Cadence » 26 Jun 2019, 21:44

Can’t remember where I read it but I like the quote. It’s not service when they can afford to pay. It’s just free labor.


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DarkJedi
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Re: FM Changes

Post by DarkJedi » 27 Jun 2019, 06:08

Cadence wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 21:44
Can’t remember where I read it but I like the quote. It’s not service when they can afford to pay. It’s just free labor.
Yes, in my mind there is a difference between service and free labor. Interestingly enough in the talk I mentioned in my previous post, the only roofing project he specifically mentioned was the roof of a doctor who lived in our ward at the time. I have taken the free labor view when it comes to cleaning the building, too. Like Mom said, I will clean up after myself and I'll even pick up the stray bulletin left on a foyer chair, but that's just how I am. Even if I were to take part in cleaning, I would expect that others clean up their own Cheerios. And, I think cleaning up after an activity is different - we didn't leave those messes back in the day when we did have janitors and rightly so.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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SilentDawning
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Re: FM Changes

Post by SilentDawning » 27 Jun 2019, 14:13

mom3 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 15:28
My answer is, I don't play.
That's my deal. I don't play. They can conscript all they want, but my legal status is volunteer. And this is a right to work arrangement -- I can let my volunteer organizations go at any time, for any reason, and without notice if I choose.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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