Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

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SilentDawning
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Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Sep 2015, 17:40

Short article which describes the impact on the religious community (no reference to Mormons) of the leak.

The word on TBM sites is that people are generally very condemning of people whose account information was leaked from the Ashley Madison have-an-affair site. This is not a judgment itself of the comments, but a restatement of what I saw.

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/slices/ ... dison-hack
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Sep 2015, 17:45

I personally have no sympathy for them, as a group. There might be some in situations that would elicit a degree of sympathy, but I am not crying over this leak or its impact.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by mom3 » 08 Sep 2015, 18:12

Just WOW.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SilentDawning
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Sep 2015, 19:09

I wonder if the commitment to non-judgmentalism that I have made to myself and others applies to people who signed up for Ashley Madison accounts?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Sep 2015, 19:17

We have to make judgment calls based on actions. There is no avoiding that and remaining healthy.

I wonder if he was right. The article was from about two weeks ago.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Ann
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Ann » 09 Sep 2015, 00:30

Somewhere in there he says even self-inflicted wounds need care. I sure feel sorry for the spouses, children and congregations involved as they try to figure out who gives that care. I honestly don't think I could do it, especially as spouse. I wouldn't pile on, but I'd have to keep some distance.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Gerald
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Gerald » 09 Sep 2015, 03:16

Some of the individuals exposed have committed suicide. At least one of these was a pastor. Are these activities wrong? Of course. But condemning the users of this site solves little. Such dark forces can rock our souls at times. It's a shame that such things can't be discussed publicly before they are indulged privately.
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

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SilentDawning
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by SilentDawning » 09 Sep 2015, 05:13

As much as I don't believe in, or agree with having an affair (and have never had one), here is how I feel about the people involved.

1. Some may have been on Ashley Madison because they were in a marriage where their partner refused intimacy with them for decades. Not that it's their partners' fault that they sought an affair-- it's their own, but this circumstance may have driven them to exercise poor judgment or put pressure on them. Extreme circumstances can really alter a person's thinking and encourage behavior they would otherwise not do.

2. Some may have seen it as an alternative to breaking up their families. With children at home -- they were planning to break off their marriage after their children were grown in 15 years and saw extra-marital relationships as an alternative to help them cope in the short-term. Not a great strategy (some say divorce is easier on kids than the staying in a dysfunctional marriage, but not all unhappy couples see it that way).

3. Others may have been in one of these marriages where BOTH partners are involved in infidelity, but they stay together for economic or other reasons.

4. Some may have been the kind that "do it" once and then feel terrible and straighten up forever. One of my co-workers fell into this category. Had an affair, and got pregnant. She fretted out it. When she got a DNA test back and found the child was her husband's she straightened up for the rest of her marriage (so far). Her counselor told her NOT to tell her husband because he'd never seen it strengthen a marriage to share the details of a affair that the adulterer regretted and had repented of. Instead, she invested in her relationship with her husband and now, they are together and happy. Their family is stable.

5. Some of the Ashley Madison accounts may have been in the names of fictitious people, or faked names/identities/credit cards so the real potential adulterers' identity would not be leaked if something like this happened. Therefore, people may be judging and disbelieving perfectly innocent people.

Again, I'm not agreeing with the behavior, but I have made a commitment to try to look at untoward behavior with far less harshness and judgmentalism than I have in the past. It's my reaction to the judgmentalism being a Mormon breeds in character if one is not careful.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Heber13
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Heber13 » 09 Sep 2015, 06:00

Shame on the creators for starting this service. Shame on all the people who signed up as users on the site (that's a fitting name for patrons of the site..."users"). Shame on people who hack and steal.

Of all of those, the hackers seem the least of icky people on the list.

It just never feels good when weaknesses and deep dark secrets are brought to the light of day....but they signed up for it.

I would have a difficult time salvaging a relationship where that happens. Like Ann said, I wouldn't pile on, but would keep distance.

Judging based on facts is normal.

I think I would try to have a forgiving heart if I knew anyone and they asked my forgiveness after being exposed. I could be a friend to support if they were contrite. But I wouldn't trust them the same way.

I don't think I'd feel much sympathy at all for them. But we all have weaknesses and will pay one way or another for sinning.

Religious leaders get a little extra sting if they preach to others and then get caught being hypocrites.

Being a religious leader, and then thinking your credit card and info given to a website is secure is just dumb. As dumb as the site they are signing up for. They kinda set themselves up for it.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Roy
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Re: Religious Leaders Resign over Ashley Madison Hack

Post by Roy » 09 Sep 2015, 08:36

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolog ... &ocid=iehp

Beloved pastor and seminary teacher commits suicide over the leak.

I get it. They went to a internet service and paid money to potentially get set up with an extra-marital affair. They were at least interested in the concept of secretly breaking their marital vows (based on the gender imbalance reported from the site I am not sure how many were successful in actually securing an affair).

but when someone decides to take their life because of shame.... How would it change the equation for me if it were my friend, my dad, my brother, or my son?

I do not have any suggestions. I am just sad for all the pain that so many people are experiencing.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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