My Rant - cleaning the building

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SamBee
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by SamBee » 12 May 2014, 05:26

Just recently I've been doing a lot of physical work - lifting, walking up hundreds of stairs etc - I don't want to do this in my spare time.

I just try to take good care of the building. I sometimes house sit, if the ward is expecting workmen or do the FHC. Both of these are more restful.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Joni
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by Joni » 12 May 2014, 05:35

Cleaning the building is a microcosm for service in the Church in general.

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DarkJedi
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by DarkJedi » 12 May 2014, 06:32

I agree, Joni, but I want my service to be because I want to do it, not because I have been commanded to or assigned to or guilted into.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 May 2014, 08:57

I absolutely do NOT want to return to the time when the members had to pay to help build and maintain the meetinghouses - or the time when individual wards had their own budgets based on member contributions. I saw SO much inequity among the wards and branches in the same stakes, with the rich wards doing all kinds of things and the poor wards having no way to do much of anything. I also understand the need to channel funds to units in third-world areas where donations are next to impossible outside of fast offerings.

I understand the desire to return to paid custodians, but I prefer having those on assistance carry the bulk of that responsibility, with members who want to help being able to do so. I don't like pressure or assignments for this, but I understand why it happens so often. It's easier, and people tend to gravitate toward that which is easiest.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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DarkJedi
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by DarkJedi » 12 May 2014, 10:35

I do like the idea of those receiving assistance doing the bulk of the work, and that seems to fit with the church's welfare principles. In my ward it doesn't seem to work that way, though. In fact, I have seen instances where they have refused to - even after having received months (even years) of assistance and still get assistance. Assistance can be a tough, tough call and I don't envy bishops for having to deal with it and I know more than one person who has left the church over issues with it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Shawn
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by Shawn » 12 May 2014, 14:24

I'm glad your rant has helped you feel better.

The signup sheet for cleaning the building has been going around in elder's quorum. I just pass it on to the next guy. I don't try to hide the fact that I simply don't want to do it - I once said, "Meh, I don't feel like doing this" as I passed it along. So, I have a bad attitude. I can see that now after reading what I just wrote.

My family (me, wife, and four kids) has had a good time cleaning the church before, but I just totally don't want to do it now, so I won't.

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GodisLove
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by GodisLove » 12 May 2014, 14:42

My issue isn't so much with cleaning the building but in our ward they want you to show up at 6:30 am on Saturday. I thought it was just the one guy giving assignments but it has been going on for several guys now. They assign the weeks as well. Two of our leaderships favorite words are "coerce" and "guilt". That was not an exaggeration. I have heard several times in meetings.
Not one Sparrow is forgotten
E'en the raven God will feed
And the lily of the valley
From His bounty hath its need

Then shall I not trust Thee, Father
In Thy mercy have a share?
And through faith and prayer, my Mother
Merit Thy protecting care?
Shaker Hymnal 1908

Huntley
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by Huntley » 12 May 2014, 18:06

I will go one farther.......why do we have to clean the building at all? The Church used to employ janitors.....why don't we have them anymore? I get it that they want us to take responsibility etc etc, but we are busy and people need employment and I am too often in the cleaning group of three and am really sick of it!

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Cadence
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My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by Cadence » 12 May 2014, 19:34

Ray DeGraw wrote:I absolutely do NOT want to return to the time when the members had to pay to help build and maintain the meetinghouses - or the time when individual wards had their own budgets based on member contributions. I saw SO much inequity among the wards and branches in the same stakes, with the rich wards doing all kinds of things and the poor wards having no way to do much of anything. I also understand the need to channel funds to units in third-world areas where donations are next to impossible outside of fast offerings.

I understand the desire to return to paid custodians, but I prefer having those on assistance carry the bulk of that responsibility, with members who want to help being able to do so. I don't like pressure or assignments for this, but I understand why it happens so often. It's easier, and people tend to gravitate toward that which is easiest.
The only difference now is that every ward pretty much does nothing. The fun days of the church are gone. It is boredom bordering on naseum. Nothing to get you energized.

I disagree completely with your assessment. So what if some wards do stuff and others do not. Members are never going to feel vested in their ward until they own it. The current system breeds apathy. It may be more efficient but it lakes the ability to motivate.

I remember the days of ward budgets and building funds. You participated and you felt like you made a difference.

The custodian was the cool old man that had all those keys on his belt. He had a job. The members liked him. It was way better than this guilt ridden cleaning assignment practice the church employs now

The real answer is leave it up to the members. If they want to clean themselves OK. It they want to hire a custodian then that is OK to. Of course then they have to have control of the funds to some degree, and that is never going to happen.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

church0333
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Re: My Rant - cleaning the building

Post by church0333 » 12 May 2014, 21:40

It is becoming a quit the hot topic in our ward. We share our building with a ward and a branch in a different stake and there is a lot of finger pointing of which unit is showing up and who isn't. I go when I am assigned but I hate it because I pay tithing and think that they should hire it out. I would like to hire someone to come and deep clean my house but I don't even though I could maybe afford it. I don't expect it to be done for free. I agree that church use to be fun but now most of the activities are pretty lame. We have a few dinners a year and that is about it. I don't know if it is because of lack of funds which I know a tight or just lack of enthusiasm on the part of the ward members.

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