Help with the issue on homosexuality.

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cwald
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Post by cwald » 15 Jan 2014, 18:11

Bradshaw?

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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Limhah
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Limhah » 15 Jan 2014, 21:19

The only positive point is that we will eventually find attitudes about the celestial order of marriage changing as we go along (or so we can hope), though -- ironically -- the institutional LDS church is no longer in order in regards to that doctrine, so we'll be in a bit of a conundrum. (Or is it dilemma?)

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JohnLocke
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by JohnLocke » 15 Jan 2014, 22:14

All of the points Ray brought up are covered in much more detail in this Dialogue article:

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 04_110.pdf

Ann
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Ann » 15 Jan 2014, 22:53

I don't usually chime in on this topic, but I have thought a lot about this lately.

Decades ago a member of my immediate family (and my former bishop) came to grips with his homosexuality. There was a divorce, public rancor, private tongue-lashings, the works. My husband and I were in constant conflict about it because I was much more soft-hearted; he really thought I was being soft-headed. Things died down. Now that I'm reexamining, I'm ashamed that I didn't stand up and publicly accept this person and express more love for him. Even though there were more issues than just his sexuality, his ex-wife said she had forgiven him and begged us to do likewise.

About 20 years later, my daughter thought she saw him in a public gathering and decided to try finding him on Facebook. It was him. Bless her heart. "And a little child shall lead them." I followed her example and got back in touch with him. It's been an online only experience and we're both fairly guarded, but I feel at peace and on the right track.

I don't know about the big picture. There are some problems, I agree. I just know that I'm happier with my conduct now.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Jan 2014, 23:21

[Admin Note:] Limhah, if I understand your comment correctly (and I am positive I do, knowing your stance on polygamy), knock it off. We allow participation from people who aren't part of the mainstream LDS Church, and we obviously allow different opinions, but we are not open to veiled charges of apostasy for the LDS Church no longer practicing polygamy. Without everyone understanding you believe in the current practice of polygamy, your ambiguous comment doesn't fit in this conversation - and, really, it simply doesn't fit, regardless.

This is a post about homosexuality, not polygamy. Period.

Finally, we told you in a thread a while ago not to use code words at this site, like calling polygamy "The Principle". In that same spirit, don't say we ought to be practicing polygamy in words that most people won't understand. Veiled charges aren't appropriate here. This is the second warning. Don't do it again.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Limhah
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Limhah » 15 Jan 2014, 23:33

Ray Degraw wrote:[Admin Note:] Limhah, if I understand your comment correctly (and I am positive I do, knowing your stance on polygamy), knock it off. We allow participation from people who aren't part of the mainstream LDS Church, and we obviously allow different opinions, but we are not open to veiled charges of apostasy for the LDS Church no longer practicing polygamy. Without everyone understanding you believe in the current practice of polygamy, your ambiguous comment doesn't fit in this conversation - and, really it simply doesn't fit, regardless.
Although I am usually pretty clear about my various stances (and am certainly out of the closet in regards to celestial marriage and united order), I don't throw around charges of apostasy/shirk lightly, so about that particular point I did not intend to imply apostasy on the part of any Mormon church. If that was the impression I gave, I offer apology.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Jan 2014, 23:37

[Admin Note:]Apology accepted.

Simply say clearly what you mean, in words everyone can understand, when you comment here.

/back to the discussion of homosexuality
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Limhah
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Joined: 11 Jun 2010, 02:01

Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Limhah » 16 Jan 2014, 00:34

Ray Degraw wrote:[Admin Note:]Apology accepted.

Simply say clearly what you mean, in words everyone can understand, when you comment here.

/back to the discussion of homosexuality
Can I start a thread on plural marriage?

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 16 Jan 2014, 12:05

The admins will talk about it, but first, we need to know:

Do you want to post it to defend polygamy and talk about your belief that it is the correct way to view marriage - and that, ideally, the LDS Church should re-embrace it and authorize it again?

Please send me the answer to that question in a Private Message. I will share it with the admins. This thread is about homosexuality, not polygamy, so this threadjack ends with this comment.

/back to the topic of the post
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Reflexzero
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Re: Help with the issue on homosexuality.

Post by Reflexzero » 16 Jan 2014, 18:01

One thing to consider is that Gender is not an absolute. It is a spectrum, and you may fall anywhere along the male or female side. On the low estimates, 1 in 2000 are born right in the middle.
No one is absolutely male or absolutely female. Same then, with sexual attraction and orientation.

It should not be surprising, as we humans are so varied and diverse in every way imaginable. It is a strength, not a weakness.

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