Would you leave if you could?

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.

Would you leave if you could?

Yes
5
17%
No
11
38%
Not sure
7
24%
Depends? (For all you lovers of nuance)
6
21%
 
Total votes: 29

User avatar
MayB
Posts: 139
Joined: 15 May 2013, 10:01

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by MayB » 08 Dec 2013, 13:58

I voted yes because that's what we are doing. Dh and I and our kids don't attend anymore. I was talking to DH last night and mentioned how I could probably attend occasionally and still be a member (just not an orthodox one) if it was just me to consider. However, like mackay is experiencing, my children were being taught the very orthodox version of the church and trying to undo the damage being done was exhausting. I'm missing the sense of community, but I don't think I could go just for that aspect. Before we stopped attending altogether I tried going just to RS by myself a few times and found it hard to take mentally and emotionally. We have yet to experience the fallout of our decision with extended family, but that will be happening soon.
I like what Ray mentioned about it coming down to personal choice. I can understand and respect the choice of others to stay and I hope they will respect our choice not to.
MayB

User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Would you leave if you could?

Post by mackay11 » 08 Dec 2013, 14:44

Thanks Mom3. I was all excited to be a "members missionary" and "stay a little longer."

I was sat chatting with DW this evening. I love the big picture of Mormonism but tonight I wished I'd just been born into a normal Church of England family where you go for a few years and then forget about it. I can't will always have my Mormon origins. I'm suddenly becoming aware that I'm imposing the same origins on my children.

My other big frustration is proving the orthodox crowd right. If I leave then they will see me as an example of the dangers of study and thought. It will shut their minds even tighter to any option of a nuanced perspective and make it doubly had for the moderates left on the inside. I want to prove to other that you can walk a middle way in Mormonism, but today it's very difficult.

The experience of Sunday being a gut-twisting emotional obstacle course is unfortunately becoming more frequent.

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5589
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by SamBee » 08 Dec 2013, 15:06

The Church of England is falling apart right now, so you might be lucky that way. Otherwise you'd always be raising thousands for the roof fund, praying for the Queen every Sunday, and worrying about whether gay women should wear pointy hats. :)

That and the fact that most of the membership is over sixty!
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
GodisLove
Posts: 114
Joined: 09 Apr 2013, 11:02

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by GodisLove » 09 Dec 2013, 00:34

mackay11 wrote: My other big frustration is proving the orthodox crowd right. If I leave then they will see me as an example of the dangers of study and thought. It will shut their minds even tighter to any option of a nuanced perspective and make it doubly had for the moderates left on the inside. I want to prove to other that you can walk a middle way in Mormonism, but today it's very difficult.

The experience of Sunday being a gut-twisting emotional obstacle course is unfortunately becoming more frequent.
Right there with you. Today felt brutal.

Each time I have read the OP topic, I say in my heart, NO, I wouldn't leave. I have been thinking about it since it was posted. Still pondering. It is tough to stay.
Not one Sparrow is forgotten
E'en the raven God will feed
And the lily of the valley
From His bounty hath its need

Then shall I not trust Thee, Father
In Thy mercy have a share?
And through faith and prayer, my Mother
Merit Thy protecting care?
Shaker Hymnal 1908

Ann
Posts: 2576
Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 02:17

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by Ann » 09 Dec 2013, 00:38

mackay11 wrote:
He apologised if he'd misquoted and then continued his praising.
I don't think very well on my feet; a recent attempt of mine to add a "different perspective" was a complete bust. The response was basically, "moving right along...." I made a note-to-self to include a question in future comments to make an opening for discussion or at least something other than what seems like an automated response.

With my kids I'm more assertive. They're older than yours, though. There are times now when we'll discuss things from class and I just say, "I don't believe that."

Hope next week is better.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by mackay11 » 09 Dec 2013, 06:31

Ann wrote:
mackay11 wrote:
He apologised if he'd misquoted and then continued his praising.
I don't think very well on my feet; a recent attempt of mine to add a "different perspective" was a complete bust. The response was basically, "moving right along...." I made a note-to-self to include a question in future comments to make an opening for discussion or at least something other than what seems like an automated response.

With my kids I'm more assertive. They're older than yours, though. There are times now when we'll discuss things from class and I just say, "I don't believe that."

Hope next week is better.
Thanks, I like the idea of opening the discussion up with a question. Too often I make a statement that gets the same respone as you got.

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Orson
Site Admin
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 14:44

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by Orson » 09 Dec 2013, 09:05

I'm in, I don't have any reason to leave. Sure I hear people say things that I don't agree with - but that is life, not just church. If I tried to isolate myself from people I disagree with I could hang out on an island and talk to a ball named Wilson.
My avatar - both physical and spiritual.

I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by mackay11 » 09 Dec 2013, 09:42

Orson wrote:I'm in, I don't have any reason to leave. Sure I hear people say things that I don't agree with - but that is life, not just church. If I tried to isolate myself from people I disagree with I could hang out on an island and talk to a ball named Wilson.
Yep, I agree. I know I won't ever get that anywhere. My concern is partly for my kids and partly whether what I believe fits any more.

Roy
Posts: 6215
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by Roy » 09 Dec 2013, 11:54

mackay11 wrote:Then the priesthood lesson was a 30 minute monologue about Saint Joseph Smith. At one point said "Joseph was a completely honest man who never hid anything. Other ministers used to call on him to try and catch him in the act of not practicing everything he preached but they never could because he always did. He never failed to live the truths he taught. The first vision was one of the most significant events in history because it taught us that all other churches are not true. Joseph Smith has to be telling the truth otherwise it can't be his church."
Our lesson was the same. Near the end when we started talking about how anti's attack the character of JS. I mentioned how we must be careful in painting a perfect picture of JS. JS was an intrument in the hands of God but he was an imperfect instrument. There were many false starts and several fumbles. We do not have a doctrine of prophetic infalability and Pres. Uchtdorf recently said in GC that church leaders make mistakes - this includes JS. I said that we have as a church have tended to remember only his great qualities but if we base our testimonies on JS being perfect then our testimonies are brittle and precarious.

The instructor then remembered the lesson from a few weeks ago about the Kirtland bank episode and said that JS was not immune to .... while he searched for the word I contributed "Speculation."

Another class member shared another part of the lesson that the important part is getting a confirming answer for ourselves that particular concepts espoused by the prophets are true.

So I had somewhat better results. This is the first time that I have been to SS/PH in a long time. I find that staying LDS is easier for me when I avoid these meetings.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16850
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Would you leave if you could?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Dec 2013, 12:48

In our lesson, the instructor started by saying that he didn't know how to approach this lesson, since it was nothing more than a testimony of Joseph's character - and he didn't want to do nothing more than read from the manual, so he opened it up for a group discussion of our thoughts and feelings about Joseph.

One of the former Bishops mentioned that lots of people who met Joseph first gained a "testimony" of / were converted to him, not necessarily his message - and lots of them left the Church when they saw and experienced his weaknesses and shortcomings. I mentioned how it's hard for some members who grow up with an idealized, nearly Savior-like view of Joseph when they learn about his issues. Others contributed their conversion stories about Joseph's role, and it was a very good, balanced discussion.

I know I'm fortunate to live in my current ward. The discussions in PH meeting tend to be uplifting and non-extremist.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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