Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

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Eric Merrill
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by Eric Merrill » 01 Dec 2013, 21:47

cwald wrote:
church0333 wrote:... I worry more about how I am going to handle the rest of this life than I do the next life at this stage.
The end.



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+1
:)
Love this. I would also answer "no" and, like Ray, TR status has nothing to do with concern for salvation. Rather, my lack of concern is fueled by my personal beliefs on the atonement, grace, trials, plan of salvation, etc. All is well in Zion. :lolno:
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Heber13
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by Heber13 » 01 Dec 2013, 23:03

DarkJedi wrote:The truth is at this time I don't know.
That's my answer too.

If I felt angst or fear about it, I would probably be motivated to change something or work something out more. But I currently love my kids and see how wonderful they are, and try to teach them how to grow up to be good members of society, with love and service to their neighbors, and find joy in this life. I figure everything else will work itself out in the next life.

Going through my divorce, I was told many things by different people about families and eternal relationships...and mostly, people I respected just all acknowledged that we just don't know some things about the next life and how families will be in the eternities, we just have a hope and a faith. But actually, we just don't know some things.

I accept that. Like I said, I focus on who I can become in this life, and the rest will take care of itself. I'm not concerned about it. I certainly don't believe a TR or a secret handshake will be what is used to determine exaltation or not.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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mackay11
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Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by mackay11 » 02 Dec 2013, 00:31

cwald wrote:No.

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:)

I agree. Sometimes I've had moments of "what if..." but I don't believe that way any more. There are too many scriptures and even leader quotes to support a universalistic view of the human family.

The Givens say something about a TR not being a "heavenly hall pass."

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nibbler
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by nibbler » 02 Dec 2013, 07:21

SilentDawning wrote:whether my mortality is bothering me since I'm not a full-fledged TR-holder any longer.
No more than anyone else on this planet. ;)

I've heard several stories about people that made sure they have a temple recommend even though they had no ability to actually go to a temple. They still felt the importance behind getting a temple recommend even thought they knew they'd never be attending. I don't mean to belittle that experience, if it brings peace and comfort into someone's life then holding a current temple recommend is a very good thing, a positive influence in their life. That said I think we put too much stock into what amounts to a small piece of paper. If you feel like you are "right" with God then what difference is a temple recommend going to make one way or the other?

Great. Now I've got this mental image of St. Peter at the pearly gates with a barcode scanner.
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
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Orson
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by Orson » 02 Dec 2013, 09:00

I cannot convince myself I need to worry about eternal salvation, I guess I'm not wired that way. I am close to someone that is apostate (as far as the church is concerned) and I don't have any worries about their standing in the next life.

I do naturally lean on what Moroni 7:47 teaches: "whoso is found possessed of [charity] at the last day, it shall be well with him."

I believe very strongly that our major "test" of mortal life is to learn to gain charity or love and place it at the top of our list of priorities. Strong and specific religious opinions can sometimes get in the way of this objective.

When someone is obviously absent of charity in this life I still don't worry about their salvation because I believe in eternal progression. I believe everyone learns at their own pace but will always have the opportunity to learn and progress.
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by Roy » 02 Dec 2013, 10:21

Orson wrote:hen someone is obviously absent of charity in this life I still don't worry about their salvation because I believe in eternal progression. I believe everyone learns at their own pace but will always have the opportunity to learn and progress.
How charitable of you! ;)
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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mackay11
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Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by mackay11 » 02 Dec 2013, 12:22

Orson wrote:I cannot convince myself I need to worry about eternal salvation, I guess I'm not wired that way. I am close to someone that is apostate (as far as the church is concerned) and I don't have any worries about their standing in the next life.

I do naturally lean on what Moroni 7:47 teaches: "whoso is found possessed of [charity] at the last day, it shall be well with him."

I believe very strongly that our major "test" of mortal life is to learn to gain charity or love and place it at the top of our list of priorities. Strong and specific religious opinions can sometimes get in the way of this objective.

When someone is obviously absent of charity in this life I still don't worry about their salvation because I believe in eternal progression. I believe everyone learns at their own pace but will always have the opportunity to learn and progress.
This! :)

Matthew 25 is even more explicit in saying he will gather all nations and separate based on doing good. The "sheep" are promised eternal life.

And I also agree that this is one step in a very long journey.

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SamBee
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by SamBee » 02 Dec 2013, 15:37

I'm inclined to think we put ourselves in Hell by our actions, words and attitude, which remove us from God. I don't think it works the way some folk think. You know how you feel bad when you hurt someone? Think of it in those terms.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
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Life_Journey_of_Matt
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by Life_Journey_of_Matt » 02 Dec 2013, 17:08

When my wife and I were sealed in the temple, the sealer said something that struck me. He said, "It is likely that all of us here today will be in the celestial kingdom someday. In fact, I think there will be more people who find the celestial kingdom than people who don't. Many, many more."
mackay11 wrote:Sometimes I've had moments of "what if..." but I don't believe that way any more. There are too many scriptures and even leader quotes to support a universalistic view of the human family.
Add the quote from my sealer above to your list mackay. ;)

The existence of a celestial kingdom is a big IF for me, and lately I tend to be more rooted in this existence than the next. Death will come; that much is certain, but all of the theories about what comes after death are just that, theories. Why not be hopeful for the more peaceful, inclusive theories?

I very much agree with Orson's sentiment that this life is much more of a learning experience than it is a pass/fail test. Even if it is a pass/fail test of sorts, some Eastern traditions suggest we continually get do-overs until we get it right. That actually doesn't seem ridiculous at all to me, though some may think it is.

I am amazed at how little a TR means to me personally now that it's gone. The only peace it really brought me was a lack of expectation-driven guilt from family and friends...the false comfort of conformity. The only part that really felt good was that I had the stamp of approval from someone else. Over the past few months as the shallow nature of that validation has come to light, it has melted away. It's been replaced by something deeper and much more meaningful. If I ever get a TR again, it will be because 1. I regain the feeling that the temple offers something I need that I can't get elsewhere in life, and 2. either my beliefs fall back in line with the TR questions or the TR process evolves into something that's more accepting of unorthodox views.

Great topic by the way!
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DarkJedi
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Re: Are you concerned about your personal/family salvation?

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Dec 2013, 18:26

SamBee wrote:I'm inclined to think we put ourselves in Hell by our actions, words and attitude, which remove us from God. I don't think it works the way some folk think. You know how you feel bad when you hurt someone? Think of it in those terms.
Me too, Sam. I actually think the final judgement is going to be much more of us judging ourselves than us being judged by someone. I think someone (Jesus or an appointee) will be the moderator/prompter/questioner, but I sort of see it like a temple recommend interview. The bishop/stake president really aren't judging anyone in those interviews - our own answers stand in judgement, and only we as individuals know the true answers for ourselves.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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