More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

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SilentDawning
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More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by SilentDawning » 06 Oct 2013, 20:31

As my wife and I watched his talk, she rewound a part to ask me if I heard it. He mentioned that none of the LOCAL leadership are paid. This has been a bit of a standing debate among people in my Ward during certain lessons. His qualifying statement implies that the people at the top are paid.

Not that I'm questioning that decision (to pay top leaders), but that finally, there is an implicit admission that people above local leaders receive pay for their service.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Oct 2013, 20:34

I heard and appreciated that wording.
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MayB
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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by MayB » 07 Oct 2013, 09:25

I think Pres. Uchtdorf's talk had many subtle, but important messages and implications. I only wish that I could see evidence of my TBM friends and family having picked up on those. So far, all any of them have seemed to take away from his important address was to "doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith". I remember Elder Holland's talk in the spring conference and how it held a lot of hope, but when it was taught in RS later on in the year, the message seemed to be boiled down to the part about trusting what you know and not worrying about what you don't know.
I think I'll read and study a few of Uchtdorf's talks a bit more. While we're not planning on full attendance, we will be attending for a while off and on and I think that many of his points are ones that need to be brought up in class discussions.
MayB

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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by mackay11 » 07 Oct 2013, 10:57

MayB wrote:I think Pres. Uchtdorf's talk had many subtle, but important messages and implications. I only wish that I could see evidence of my TBM friends and family having picked up on those. So far, all any of them have seemed to take away from his important address was to "doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith". I remember Elder Holland's talk in the spring conference and how it held a lot of hope, but when it was taught in RS later on in the year, the message seemed to be boiled down to the part about trusting what you know and not worrying about what you don't know.
I think I'll read and study a few of Uchtdorf's talks a bit more. While we're not planning on full attendance, we will be attending for a while off and on and I think that many of his points are ones that need to be brought up in class discussions.
I agree May that members will take from conference what they want/need to hear (as have I).

I don't expect overnight change but I'm glad I've got more resources to quote from when I want to make a point in a lesson discussion.

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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by Life_Journey_of_Matt » 07 Oct 2013, 16:22

SilentDawning wrote:He mentioned that none of the LOCAL leadership are paid.
I totally heard this too! I wanted to bring it up with my wife, but I already scrutinize things enough. ;)
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DarkJedi
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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by DarkJedi » 07 Oct 2013, 20:02

Life_Journey_of_Matt wrote:
SilentDawning wrote:He mentioned that none of the LOCAL leadership are paid.
I totally heard this too! I wanted to bring it up with my wife, but I already scrutinize things enough. ;)
:lol: I heard it too, and also kept it to myself!
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Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Oct 2013, 03:10

OK...then I'm going to spark the question that has been on my mind ever since I learned through the Bloggernacle that the idea of a completely unpaid ministry is a myth -- years ago.

"What is the difference between top-level Mormon leaders receiving pay for their service, and priestcraft?".

Notice -- I am not accusing the church or the leaders of this practice or trying to be negative. But I would like to hear how that practice is consistent (if it even is) with the Book of Mormon admonition to avoid priestcraft. For years and years and years I have heard the phrase "no one is paid". I've heard teachers correct people who have stated people at non-local levels are paid. There have never been any caveats or qualifiers that I have heard for core, ecclesiastical leaders receiving pay for their services.

I think a very large percent of members believe the prophet, and apostles are lay ministers. This is another example of the general membership believing things that aren't true, which can cause disillusionment after they learn the truth - and realize no one has ever corrected that apparently incorrect belief.

"What is the difference between top-level Mormon leaders receiving pay for their service, and priestcraft?".
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by Jazernorth » 08 Oct 2013, 06:32

SilentDawning wrote:As my wife and I watched his talk, she rewound a part to ask me if I heard it. He mentioned that none of the LOCAL leadership are paid. This has been a bit of a standing debate among people in my Ward during certain lessons. His qualifying statement implies that the people at the top are paid.

Not that I'm questioning that decision (to pay top leaders), but that finally, there is an implicit admission that people above local leaders receive pay for their service.
I don't want to spend the time to find where it was said, but I remember from my youth a GA saying that GA's and the presidency receive a stipend. He said stipend. Now, there is no knowing how much a stipend is or where it came from. I always thought everyone knew that GAs and the presidency received money for their time.
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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by DarkJedi » 08 Oct 2013, 07:55

Jazernorth wrote:
SilentDawning wrote:As my wife and I watched his talk, she rewound a part to ask me if I heard it. He mentioned that none of the LOCAL leadership are paid. This has been a bit of a standing debate among people in my Ward during certain lessons. His qualifying statement implies that the people at the top are paid.

Not that I'm questioning that decision (to pay top leaders), but that finally, there is an implicit admission that people above local leaders receive pay for their service.
I don't want to spend the time to find where it was said, but I remember from my youth a GA saying that GA's and the presidency receive a stipend. He said stipend. Now, there is no knowing how much a stipend is or where it came from. I always thought everyone knew that GAs and the presidency received money for their time.
That's what I remember being taught as well. The stipend was supposed to meet their living expenses because they are serving full time. I also don't recall ever hearing what the stipend was, I always supposed it was fairly generous however.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: More overtones to Pres. Uchtdorf's talk

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Oct 2013, 07:59

We know they are paid. I personally don't know how anyone could accept a lifelong calling and not get paid, particularly if they weren't independently wealthy.

What I am asking is how this practice can be justified given the BoM prescription to avoid priestcraft. No one has ever qualified that principle to mean only local leaders should not be paid. The membership has been content to believe everyone is unpaid, and the top leadership has never addressed that misguided belief, as far as I am aware. One person, in a lesson, indicated that top authorities are paid, and the teacher, a recently graduated, articulate and usually very knowledgeable lawyer corrected her -- reiterated that no one is paid, and then moved on. Most people believe they aren't paid, in my experience.

I am not disagreeing with paid leaders either. I feel that local leaders often neglect the flock out of sheer lack of capacity. If they were able to dedicate their time in a focused way to their callings, quality would improve.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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