Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

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cwald
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Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by cwald » 22 Dec 2012, 12:50

This is as good of a StayLDS post as you're going to ever find...so I am going to post it word for word. If this is a problem...copyright whatever...the mods can fix it.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/ ... s.html.csp
Kirby: Don’t be self-righteous in setting people straight
By Robert Kirby

We’re saved. The horrible LDS feminist "Wear Pants to Church Day" did not usher in the Apocalypse. The Angel of Death failed to show up at sacrament meeting in button-fly Levis.

As a supporter of the "Pants: They’re Not Just for Priesthood Anymore" campaign, I received feedback from annoyed fellow Mormons taking me to task for not following "the brethren" in the matter of church dress standards.

As one reader said, "Your [sic] stupid. I can’t wait for when the brethrin [sic] do something about you."

Another predicted that I would soon be crying over how severely church leaders treated me — an event he looked forward to.

Me, too. This column would be a lot more fun if I had some ecclesiastical rudeness or official church meanness to rail about. But I got nothing.

I’ve never been treated rudely by a church leader. I’ve heard of it happening to other people. Maybe it does. It’s just never happened to me.

My stake president has never addressed me in a sneering tone, a member of the Seventy has never questioned the circumstances of my birth and no apostle (including any of the really tough ones) has offered to punch me in the face.

This is not to say that church leaders and I have always agreed. In fact, we haven’t. Frankly, I can’t imagine anything more boring. But when we have disagreed, they have been unfailingly polite about it.

I’ve found the same thing to be true of Catholic, Jewish and Muslim leaders. Some nuns got mad at me once, but even then they were nice about it.
If I had to guess — and I do — this temperate approach to religious discussion on the part of religious leaders stems from experience, an understanding that you can’t effectively change people’s minds by insulting them.

This is something that seems to elude other gospel stalwarts who presume to set people straight on the mind of God through deliberate offense.
Tap into any Internet religious debate, including a completely inconsequential one such as pants, and you’ll see how easy it is for some people to forget all that Sunday school they’re so proud of.

Personally, I find a lot of entertainment value in the irony of people berating others over what Jesus would do by doing precisely what Jesus wouldn’t. But that’s just me. I’m bad.

Religion is a touchy subject. A certain amount of insult and name-calling is expected. After all, not everyone feels constrained by high-minded principles when discussing it. But better behavior really ought to be expected from people who claim to embrace such things.

A more pertinent question might be whether that incongruous behavior ever works. It’s a fair question even for people who don’t buy into that "love one another" stuff.

Has anyone ever persuaded someone else to really reconsider a point of view by sneering at them? If the answer is "no," then it raises the question: Why do it?
I suspect it’s because the veneer of civility is fairly thin in human beings, including — and sometimes even especially — those who claim to be the truest followers of their faith.

Robert Kirby can be reached at rkirby@sltrib.com or facebook.com/stillnotpatbagley.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by Curt Sunshine » 22 Dec 2012, 13:23

I'm glad we have Brother Kirby and his insights. :clap:

I also think it's . . . enlightening . . . that the people who were convinced he would get reprimanded probably ignored completely or justified away the official response from the Church :roll: - you know, the "there is no prohibition against women wearing pants to church, and we don't dictate what 'Sunday best' means" statement. :thumbup:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by cwald » 22 Dec 2012, 13:32

Ray Degraw wrote:I'm glad we have Brother Kirby and his insights. :clap:

I also think it's . . . enlightening . . . that the people who were convinced he would get reprimanded probably ignored completely or justified away the official response from the Church :roll: - you know, the "there is no prohibition against women wearing pants to church, and we don't dictate what 'Sunday best' means" statement. :thumbup:
Yes. It is a good reminder of how VERY VERY different the church is from what we often experience on the bloggernacle. I often forget that.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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cwald
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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by cwald » 22 Dec 2012, 13:37

This article was also sent to me by jwald's father...a guy who is pretty devout and been a Utah bishop for 25 years.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by wayfarer » 22 Dec 2012, 13:44

Kirby as one of my very favorite Middle-Wayers.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

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cwald
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Re: Kirby responds to the

Post by cwald » 22 Dec 2012, 13:54

wayfarer wrote:Kirby as one of my very favorite Middle-Wayers.
Kirby as one of my very favorite Prophets.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by Curt Sunshine » 22 Dec 2012, 14:03

Yeah, he's an Old Testament prophet (see issues that might cause problems for a people and broadcast them to the people) with a New Testament philosophy.

He's like a lay member version of Pres. Uchtdorf. I like that.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

afterall
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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by afterall » 22 Dec 2012, 21:11

cwald, thank you so much for posting this!

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cwald
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Re: Kirby responds to the "Wear Pants to Church"

Post by cwald » 22 Dec 2012, 22:02

You are most welcome.

"Kirby for Prophet" Perhaps I should start my campaign early. :smile:
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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mackay11
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Kirby responds to the

Post by mackay11 » 24 Dec 2012, 13:35

As one reader said, "Your [sic] stupid. I can’t wait for when the brethrin [sic] do something about you."
Lololololololololol!

But in many other ways, tragic. Oh how I could do without people like that at church, it would make it much more pleasant.

And thanks for sharing the article. Very good.

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