Are we better than our traditions?

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behappy
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Are we better than our traditions?

Post by behappy » 22 Feb 2011, 10:47

I have written on another thread about blowing up in EQ over the fathers and sons camp out excluding our daughters. I understand that the fathers and sons is a tradition in the church. However, I have to ask are we better than are traditions? I don't think anyone can find a valid argument for the fathers and sons being doctrinal so it must fall under that category of tradition.

Are we obligate to continue traditions that are hurtful, exclusionary or just plain out dated? I can think of other examples of traditions in the church that are wonderful. Like in our ward every fall the youth rake leaves and put up lights for the elderly. So I am not against all tradition. I am only asking do we have to follow something just because it is a tradition or can we be good enough to discard traditions that don't make sense or are harmful?

The church has a history of moving beyond tradition, like the priesthood ban. I understand that sometimes it takes longer than we would like but, why does it take so long to change tradition? As disciples of Christ should we be better than our traditions?

Old-Timer
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by Old-Timer » 22 Feb 2011, 13:16

why does it take so long to change tradition?


It provides an anchor in a tumultuous world.

Watch "Fiddler on the Roof".

Seriously, it's a great treatment of the struggle to hold onto tradition while still adapting.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Cadence
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by Cadence » 22 Feb 2011, 19:26

Any religion or group is going to have traditions that are important to it identity. I do not think this is at all unique to Mormonism. Personally I just do not participate in traditions I deem silly.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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cwald
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by cwald » 22 Feb 2011, 20:49

I have given up on cultural commandments and traditions that cause me angst ---- both within the church and with my immediate family. I really am a black sheep.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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SamBee
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by SamBee » 28 Feb 2011, 15:06

The simple answer is, "it depends on which tradition".
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Heber13
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by Heber13 » 28 Feb 2011, 15:50

The Church has no problem putting the kabosh on traditions that don't support current needs...like white water rafting trips outside the stake boundaries...those were good times when I was young, but budget needs changed all that nowadays.

I think we can follow the lead the church exemplifies, and embrace traditions that enrich our lives, but let go of traditions of our fathers that don't.

As SamBee said so well...
SamBee wrote:The simple answer is, "it depends on which tradition".
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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cwald
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by cwald » 28 Feb 2011, 18:41

'With all due respect, I don't think I will look to exemplify the church's example when it comes to deciding which traditions to keep and which ones to throw out. I think they have done a poor job of it to be honest.

I'm not much of guy who puts much merits into traditions - I guess that is why my VERY traditional family has issues with me, and why I have been a complete failure when it comes to mormon orthodoxy.

So, my answer is, YES, I would like to think my family and I are better than our traditions.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

pickles
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by pickles » 28 Feb 2011, 19:17

I can understand how traditions keep things from changing too fast. That seems like mostly a good thing unless your one of the ones that wishes the tradition would hurry up and change. I can't speak from experience about Church traditions. In general I feel like traditions in society put huge limits on my life and who I can be. I guess my problem has a lot more to do with gender roles. But gender roles are just another tradition I think. I guess it depends on how broad your definition of tradition is.

In the case of Behappy, his problem is with a tradition that excludes one gender. Things like this keep me awake at night hating the world. I don't like to think of myself as a feminist because some times they seem to go to far the other way. I'm still angry at experiences from my childhood that I can't get over, but should. Some people think that excluding a few girls from a camping trip is no big deal. I think that when you are young, these small things make a huge impact on who you are as an adult. I had similar things happen to me and I never forgot them. They made a huge impact. The things that changed who I am were tiny moments that would seem insignificant to any adult.

Whenever I see something happening at church I always wonder how is it shaping the children who are watching.

Brown
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by Brown » 01 Mar 2011, 00:30

I actually liked father's and son's campout as a kid/teen. It was a night to get out and just be a guy. I hear women talk of "girls' night out" with fondness, so I don't understand the big deal. Besides if you invite the daughters and make it a father and kid campout, aren't you excluding the mothers? And then what about people who have no children, can they come? Before long it is just a plain ward campout.

As for the main topic, I think we are better than our traditions. We managed to kill polygamy and racism in the priesthood, didn't we?

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observant
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Re: Are we better than our traditions?

Post by observant » 01 Mar 2011, 10:45

If a ward facilitates many different types of activities and the Father's and Sons happens to be one of many I don't see an issue with it. If the ward only sponsored activities for the men, well then, I'd REALLY have an issue with it.
"Some think it's holding on that makes one strong; sometimes it's letting go. "~Sylvia Robinson

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