David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

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Roy
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David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by Roy » 15 Jun 2021, 12:56

Recently LDS singer David Archuleta has announced that he is part of the LGBTQIA+ community.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 64939.html
https://ew.com/music/david-archuleta-re ... mon-faith/
https://www.vulture.com/2021/06/david-a ... unity.html
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/06 ... comes-out/
https://deadline.com/2021/06/david-arch ... 234774238/
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/6/12 ... ion-mormon

I am reminded somewhat of Benji Schwimmer

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3247&p=40749&hilit=benji#p40749

Both David and Benji are LDS men that found success at reality TV talent show competitions and became sort of Mormon celebrities. Both David and Benji put their respective careers on hold to serve a proselyting mission for the LDS church.

There are some differences. Benji had some dabbling in same-sex relationships that resulted in some unofficial discipline/probation (not being permitted to take the sacrament) and an annotation in his membership record that he has SSA (that subsequently precluded him from working with the youth of the church... forever). All the news reports at current appear to be based upon David Archuleta's Instagram post and information is still quite limited but at current it does not appear that David has had any sort of church discipline.

David went on a mission in 2012 and then came out to his parents as gay in 2014. It sounds like this has been a disconnect between his sexuality and his faith that David has struggled with for a long time.

David says that he came out to his parents as gay but then later felt that he might be on the bisexual spectrum and now wonders if he might even be asexual. I imagine that it must be difficult to try to discover/define your sexuality on a world stage. I wonder if his evolution/vacillation on the subject might be used against him by those not wanting to listen with empathy or make more space within the church for LGBTQIA+ members. I worry that they may feel that David "changed" from being gay, to being Bi, to being asexual and that he could "choose" to be heterosexual if he set his mind to it.

David is calling for an increase in compassion and kindness from people of faith communities towards people among the LGBTQIA+ spectrum.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by DarkJedi » 16 Jun 2021, 05:11

I had actually thought David came out a long time ago. Maybe it was leaked that he came out to his parents in 2014. I can't say I have a highly developed "gaydar" but what I do have pings with David - in other words, I've always thought he was gay. No big deal though because I agree with David and others that it's not something people choose and we as a church and as a people need to be more loving and accepting. I have also come to understand that there is a spectrum associated with same sex attraction and clearly David isn't positive yet where he is on that spectrum. And I believe the asexual part does complicate that a bit for him - and I think being asexual is something else the church (and we as a people) need to understand, welcome, and tolerate better.

I'm glad David made a statement like this. I think the more well known members who can say "Hey, look at me, I'm a faithful believing person who is temple worthy, etc., and I'm LGBTQA+." I think Dan Reynolds, who is even more outspoken, is also good. I remember the Benji Schwimmer story and other more recent examples like the Charlie Bird (AKA Cosmo, BYU mascot) and the guy who came out as gay at BYU graduation a couple years back (can't recall or readily find the the name at the moment). I think the more voices, the better.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Limhah
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by Limhah » 16 Jun 2021, 20:01

I wish they'd stop inquiring into people's private lives in general and think that would go a long way to resolving many of the issues raised. There are plenty of things in my life I like to keep private or restricted to certain in-groups by choice and don't care to discuss with, say, a bishop or any putative authority.

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DarkJedi
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Jun 2021, 08:09

One of the things David said is pretty relevant to all of us here and something I think every LGBTQA+ needs to hear and understand/embrace:
I’ve tried for almost 20 years to try and change myself until I realized God made me how I am for a purpose, and instead of hating what I have considered wrong I need to see why God loved me for who I am and that it’s not just sexuality.
To remain Christians or believers on some level I think it's pretty important to believe in God's love and mercy.

I recently caught part of a Creflo Dollar sermon. I'm not a regular watcher, I was flipping channels (still possible with my antenna). But he was talking about how when we try to prove our worthiness (he didn't use those exact words) or work out our own salvation we are actually denying God's love and the blood of Christ because Jesus already did that - He already paid the price. I believe we need to hold on to the idea that God doesn't love us because of what we do or don't do - God just loves us and loves us just the way we are.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Roy
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by Roy » 17 Jun 2021, 08:38

DarkJedi wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 08:09
God doesn't love us because of what we do or don't do - God just loves us and loves us just the way we are.
I agree. I felt this in the depths of my own FC.

I am no longer concerned/fearful about earning/losing my spot in heaven. Like the Hogwarts's sorting hat, I believe that HF will put me where I most need to be and He will do it with a full knowledge, love, and acceptance of who I am.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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nibbler
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by nibbler » 17 Jun 2021, 10:20

DarkJedi wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 08:09
... But he was talking about how when we try to prove our worthiness (he didn't use those exact words) or work out our own salvation we are actually denying God's love and the blood of Christ because Jesus already did that - He already paid the price. ...
At times I've thought that our culture is so obsessed with worthiness, obedience, and qualifying for god's favor that it's as if our whole goal in this life was to become good enough to where we no longer had need of Jesus/a savior.

It would be nice to explore the fields that lie out beyond "if we're more obedient then..."
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.
— I dunno, Nephi?

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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by Old-Timer » 17 Jun 2021, 11:02

I have admired David for as long as I have known about him - for multiple reasons.

I hope his openness helps others - both those who are outside what we have defined as normal (carefully worded description) and those who are not but struggle to understand and accept them.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Jun 2021, 14:36

nibbler wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 10:20
DarkJedi wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 08:09
... But he was talking about how when we try to prove our worthiness (he didn't use those exact words) or work out our own salvation we are actually denying God's love and the blood of Christ because Jesus already did that - He already paid the price. ...
At times I've thought that our culture is so obsessed with worthiness, obedience, and qualifying for god's favor that it's as if our whole goal in this life was to become good enough to where we no longer had need of Jesus/a savior.

It would be nice to explore the fields that lie out beyond "if we're more obedient then..."
No doubt! As I was listening to Creflo Dollar, who I haven't paid much attention to in the past, I was thinking "This is what we believe." But I'm not sure most people would get that as the take home on any given Sunday. David ties in there because, well, this is what we believe...but that may not be the take away on any given Sunday.

I'm going to look and see if there is a transcript, or similar transcripts, of Creflo Dollar's sermon and perhaps it's a topic for another thread. It really resonated with me and he put it so much better than I can. -He even had a line in there (paraphrasing) about us thinking we're better than Jesus because we think what we do earns us something that Jesus already did.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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DarkJedi
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Jun 2021, 14:50

Old-Timer wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 11:02
I have admired David for as long as I have known about him - for multiple reasons.

I hope his openness helps others - both those who are outside what we have defined as normal (carefully worded description) and those who are not but struggle to understand and accept them.
I agree, and also like David. Yes, I've thought he was gay but I've also always been pretty accepting of gays and feel they are treated poorly by the church (institution) and the church (community) in general. I can't imagine what he has endured by those who are not so open and accepting and those who are more judgemental. I was 30 when I married, so I have a little taste of some of it, but not all. Yes, I know there were people who wondered if I was gay (some people told me so) and I relate somewhat to David's asexualism. Nevertheless, David is a "menace to society" as was I and there are church cultural expectations that David is not meeting - thus I think part of what is happening here is David saying "I'm good, don't worry about it." The church needs to grow and mature, thank you David for helping. The "God loves me for who I am" message (as opposed to "God loves me if I do X, and Y, and Z") needs to be the take away much more often than it is.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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DarkJedi
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Re: David Archuleta LGBTQIA+

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Jun 2021, 06:14

Related, I think, although not directly to David Archuleta. This article regarding more younger church members identifying as sexually non-binary is in today's Salt Lake Tribune. The article does specifically look at Gen. Z (those born after 1997), but also notes Millennials (which would include David). https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/06 ... -are-more/
Not surprisingly, there is more sexual diversity among younger Latter-day Saints than older ones. While 94% of baby boomers said they were heterosexual, just 77% of Generation Z did. (This analysis borrows Pew’s cutoff dates for the generations, which uses 1997 as the first birth year of Gen Z. Only adult Gen Zers over age 18 were eligible for the study.) So, 23% of Gen Zers who identify as LDS say they are lesbian, gay, bisexual or other. And nearly as many (19%) of millennials did as well. It’s notable that this finding is nearly double the 10% that Benjamin Knoll and I found among millennials in the 2016 Next Mormons Survey (which broke down into 7% bisexual, 2% gay or lesbian, and 1% “other”).
Riess notes three points for consideration:
First, generationally, sexual diversity is high among Gen Z Mormons because it’s high among Gen Z as a whole. In terms of sexual orientation, Nationscape’s Gen Z Latter-day Saints look a lot like non-Mormons their same age
The second point is that Gen Z Mormons currently show more sexual diversity than older generations of Latter-day Saints because, frankly, some of them are statistically likely to leave the church but have not yet done so.
Finally, one surprising aspect of the study is related to race and geography. Nationscape’s data suggests that among Mormons, some racial and ethnic minorities were more likely to also be sexual minorities.
Among all Americans, heterosexuality was 87% for Hispanics and 90% for Blacks, but among Latter-day Saints it was 71% for Hispanics and 74% for Blacks. It’s a statistically significant difference because the sample size is big enough that this isn’t just a random sampling error. Still, it’s unclear why Black and Hispanic Mormons exhibit more sexual diversity than their non-LDS counterparts.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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