Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by startpoor » 30 Nov 2013, 10:13

Jodi,

Thanks for sharing. I just joined this site and am so glad to be among people with an equal purpose. I feel for your pain. I think that, like some here, most of what makes up the church today is man-made, and therefore imaginary. Some bits have been inspired by god or by inner human goodness or wisdom. I think some of the issues women face in the church are rooted deeply is some of our most basic myths and teachings, and in order to get past those, we need to acknowledge the workings of men in the church. This has helped me heal some wounds I didn't realize I had. Or if I had them, I shrugged them off as the carnal, evil side of me, that needed to be fixed. Now I feel free to love as I wish, to worship as I wish. I also let myself pray to a heavenly mother sometimes, because I get a different feeling when I do, and it's good and full of love. I'm not trying to offer up an easy fix for you, just take it slow, meditate, get professional help if you need it, and find understanding people to talk to (like many of the wonderful people here.)

-Rich
Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

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Always Thinking
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Joined: 29 Dec 2015, 11:46

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Always Thinking » 03 Apr 2016, 15:45

Sorry to bump an old post, but I saw your comment on another post, Joni and your comment struck me about God not loving you. I don't know how I would handle receiving an answer like that. I wanted to tell you, though, that I received an incorrect answer in the temple. It was a very distinct, clear answer and I received it the same way that I have received other revelations before. I have always based my beliefs on prayers. I grew up in the church and have ALWAYS had my prayers answered, or if they weren't, I was able to reason why they weren't and I could keep on believing. But this one was different. This one I received precise dates that two things were going to happen. Both dates passed and those things did not happen. So in my experience one can receive incorrect answers in the temple. It has shaken my faith in prayer because now I don't know how to trust the answers I get. So I also understand why you don't want to believe it could be an incorrect answer, because that comes with it's own problems. I just wanted you to know that it is possible that it was an incorrect answer. My husband believes that sometimes our own emotions or biases can mess with what answers we receive from God or can seem like an answer from God when they're not, which makes sense to me. That may have been what it was for me, but still, how can I trust my prayers if my own feelings can get in the way? How do I know that I am for sure open to God's answer? Just thought I'd share my thoughts with you. I am so sorry that happened to you. I can't even imagine how painful that would be.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1991
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Minyan Man » 03 Apr 2016, 18:16

Thank you for bumping this up. I didn't respond this first time.
Joni, I hope things are going better for you. Prayer is a big issue for me too.
My FC started over 20+ years ago. I'm not going into the details.
Our family was facing a real crisis. It concerned my former wife & daughter.
I tried to pray about the situation. At best, I wanted an explanation of why.
If I couldn't get the why, I wanted comfort or patience. What I got was absolutely nothing.
Everything seemed BLACK. I don't understand how God allows abuse of children.
We got custody of my daughter & continued to go to church.
My focus was on my ex wife & her new boyfriend. Anytime I went to church, I got angry.
I would hear testimonies on FS & hear people bear their testimony about how God helped
them to find car keys. I got more Blackness & more anger. My brother was a policeman at the
time & I told him that if my ex wife came up dead under suspicious circumstances, he should
come to my house. At the time, I could easily justify killing someone.

I believe now that our emotional & mental situations impact our prayers & how or if
we receive answers. I still have difficulty praying & wonder sometimes if God is concerned about us
personally. It is something I have to work on. I wish us the very best in your situation.
Have you seen improvement in your situation since you've been here?

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SilentDawning
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Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by SilentDawning » 04 Apr 2016, 09:32

For me, it comes down to what your husband has to say about it -- not as a male-domination thing, but as your partner in the marriage, and who married you on Mormonism as part of the package deal. Is he supportive of how you feel, willing to give you space, go to the temple without you? All that stuff? Is refusing to renew your TR going to upset your marriage, the stability for your children, or create circumstances you can't live with?

If your husband is largely supportive or tolerant of your feelings and lack of TR-desire, I would then move on to boundary-setting with the church. Just don't go to the TR renewal. let it fade away. when the leaders haul you in to talk about it, be vague and let them know that a "TR isn't something you feel passionate about right now". Give vague hope and let the moment pass.

Then, decide how much you want the church in your life and act at that level.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Roy » 04 Apr 2016, 14:05

Hi Joni.

Since you joined the forum I have discovered that my wife believes that God is a polygamist and that he does not value her very much. Unfortunately, this has to do with what she was taught in church about polygamy and the role of women combined with her struggling feelings of self worth. My wife tends to internalize criticism while I deflect.

I still believe that God loves you but I can also tell you that you are not alone in feeling that he doesn't.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Joni
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 08:36

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Joni » 07 Apr 2016, 06:27

Always Thinking wrote:Sorry to bump an old post, but I saw your comment on another post, Joni and your comment struck me about God not loving you. I don't know how I would handle receiving an answer like that. I wanted to tell you, though, that I received an incorrect answer in the temple. It was a very distinct, clear answer and I received it the same way that I have received other revelations before. I have always based my beliefs on prayers. I grew up in the church and have ALWAYS had my prayers answered, or if they weren't, I was able to reason why they weren't and I could keep on believing. But this one was different. This one I received precise dates that two things were going to happen. Both dates passed and those things did not happen. So in my experience one can receive incorrect answers in the temple. It has shaken my faith in prayer because now I don't know how to trust the answers I get. So I also understand why you don't want to believe it could be an incorrect answer, because that comes with it's own problems. I just wanted you to know that it is possible that it was an incorrect answer. My husband believes that sometimes our own emotions or biases can mess with what answers we receive from God or can seem like an answer from God when they're not, which makes sense to me. That may have been what it was for me, but still, how can I trust my prayers if my own feelings can get in the way? How do I know that I am for sure open to God's answer? Just thought I'd share my thoughts with you. I am so sorry that happened to you. I can't even imagine how painful that would be.
The truth is, I haven't asked again to see if I get a different answer. It's been many years since God told me He doesn't love me, and it's absolutely possible that I simply got a wrong answer. (It definitely happens. My husband received confirmation that he was supposed to marry a girl he had been dating. He... did not. :D ) It's kind of a catch-22 for me: I know I might get a different answer if I asked again, but what if I get the same answer? The experience I had was so painful that I'm not in a hurry to repeat it.

Ann
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Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 02:17

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Ann » 08 Apr 2016, 07:49

Joni, I wish I had perfect advice. I hope you eventually find other ways and places to get some comfort on this question. All I can say is that the most explicit answer I've ever had to a prayer - words spoken to my mind - is impossible. I chalk it up to some kind of spiritual telephone game gone wrong and trust the rest of my experience and senses. But it makes me less LDS in the "TBM" sense, since I now know for myself that what we (you, me, President Monson) perceives as revelation might not be.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

Joni
Posts: 558
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 08:36

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Joni » 09 Apr 2016, 08:12

A few years ago my husband gave me a blessing in which he assured me that God does, in fact, love me. (This appears to be in line with the pattern we are taught in the temple, where the husband acts as an intermediary between the wife and God. I contend, however, that if God won't tell me directly that He loves me, but will only go through my husband, then that is not proof that God loves me.) It turns out that a good deal of the anger my husband has towards me regarding the Church is because of that blessing: he told me that God loves me, so if I still don't think God loves me, it's conclusive proof that I hate God and want to leave the Church.

Personally, I'm a little offended that he's taken my deep spiritual pain, and made it all about himself (how dare you dispute what I said in a PH blessing). Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this? I am a big believer in PH blessings but I also recognize that they aren't magic - you can give a blessing of healing to someone with cancer and they can totally still die and that doesn't make it the cancer patient's fault.

Ann
Posts: 2576
Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 02:17

Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Ann » 10 Apr 2016, 03:29

he's taken my deep spiritual pain, and made it all about himself
Yeah, I'd be upset. Is this how a lot of things register with him? Or just faith/church issues?

You might have mentioned whether you've tried it, but what do you think counseling could do for you? Is the question of God's love particular and limited to you, or does it feel like a function of being a woman in a world and church that doesn't always seem to love women?
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Heber13
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Re: Why I'm here. (Really long, sorry!)

Post by Heber13 » 11 Apr 2016, 09:30

Sorry Joni. I feel for you. And I agree with your thoughts and feelings.

PH blessings are not the same as God speaking to you directly. We don't need the church, priesthood, or anyone else to have a direct relationship with God. During the dark ages of the apostasy, did God's love stop because priesthood authority was not on the earth? That goes against the teachings of the church, and how God inspired so many to prepare a way for Joseph Smith.

PH blessings can help. They can be inspiring, as one form of revelation to our souls.

It is not the ONLY form, or the only way.

I remember being taught the relationship triangle many times. With me and my wife at the bottom corners of the triangle, and God at the apex. As BOTH the husband and wife move closer to God, they also get closer to each other. (not just one...not linear one through the other...but BOTH, even if both are doing it in their own way and not identical...but individually and sacred to each.)

It is not taught as priesthood gives the men the right to give the woman her testimony. That is not how it is done. That goes against God's plan.

While I could understand your husband thinking you got an answer through the priesthood blessing he gave and he felt it was an answer...and that could be frustrating when he sees it that way...you are completely right to be offended by the feeling that you have to accept revelation only through priesthood. Because that is not doctrine. Perhaps that blessing was for him, not you. But...you still need to feel God loves you personally.

However... something to consider... revelation does come in many ways by many people.

I have never seen an angel. That does not mean God doesn't love me enough to send angels because I want that revelation.
I remember reading this D&C verse:
D&C 46:13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.
14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.
I find that an interesting teaching and I ponder if often why different gifts of the spirit are given to different people. But it seems to work that way, and how one person receives revelation does not mean all will receive it the same way. It takes faith.

Also...you'll notice...this scripture does not say that Priesthood is required for some, and women must have faith in the priesthood. It is not that prescriptive about Priesthood, and so women do not need to go through Priesthood, and people do not need to go through the church leaders.
Rex D. Pinegar wrote:Each of us has that same responsibility and capability to develop a personal, warm, and loving understanding with the Savior—our Savior, the One who came here to the earth that you and I might have the privilege of realizing our greatest potential.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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