In need of hope.

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church0333
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 17:41
Location: Springfield OR

Re: In need of hope.

Post by church0333 » 22 May 2013, 02:09

As a mother of three I am sure you feel a great love and a longing to protect your children. Magnify that love by what ever you think God's love might be and you will find that that God doesn't want to see anyone left out and think what it would take for you to kick your kids out of the house. I envision people not returning back to God only when that person chooses to not having that relationship. I know for me I will always welcome my kids home (and they a far from perfect) as long as they are trying to be nice and respectful. They can be gay, not involved in the church, have tattoos, even a little crazy.

As far as church goes, cut back if you need to or if you are like me and go because you like church and the ward family and have obligations to go for you kids or at least want some of the good thing about church to be part of their lives, then go with the attitude of how can I make church better for people like yourself. As Elder Holland said in his talk at GC, we don't have to pretend to faith we do not have, so don't. I would also say if we want to be accepted then we also need to accept other with all their beliefs and issues.

pentium3
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Joined: 20 May 2013, 12:44

Re: In need of hope.

Post by pentium3 » 22 May 2013, 08:48

so when you hear things in church that don't fit with the kind of perfect love that God would possess, have confidence that divine love is greater than doctrine.
That feels right to me. When I focus on my faith in God I do feel much more at peace than when I focus on what I hear at church. I do hear lots' of good at church too, I will work on focusing on what is uplifting...and then teach my children to do the same.

Roy ,thank you for sharing the experience you had with going to God with your concern about your baby, and eternal family's. There is so much that we don't know, I'm so glad you were able to take your questions to God and find an answer that brought you peace...experiences like that help keep me going when I'm feeling spiritually low.

pentium3

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: In need of hope.

Post by Roy » 22 May 2013, 09:14

I forgot to give a link to Faces East. Faces East is a support site for spouses of people in faith crisis. Depending on where you are in your faith journey - they might be right up your alley.

http://www.faceseast.org/forum/
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Thankful
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 20:54

Re: In need of hope.

Post by Thankful » 26 May 2013, 18:55

Ray, Thank you! Your blog entries were wonderful!

Pentium, please do join us on Faces East. I have to say it has been so good for my marriage. (And I'm in your same situation.)

I used to find temple sealings painful, because my husband was not there. (I posted a short story abt it called "Winds" by Margaret Blair Young. Check old posts. You might like it.)

I no longer really worry abt it. My husband is still not in the temple, but I don't mourn. I guess I'm a heretic, but I don't give that belief "power" over me anymore. I simply don't believe it. I can't conceive of a loving God separating us forever over our short mortal experiences. If God is not loving and would condemn my husband, than I'd rather be with my husband in hell than "saved" with that unloving God.

The very fact that we have a temple shows us that God accepts "eternal progression." People are allowed to learn and grow and change after this life. If that were not so, why temples? If God allows people to accept the gospel after this life, why not your husband? If he overlooks the mortal "stumbling block" of never hearing the gospel in mortality: why would he not also consider other mortal "stumbling blocks?" Like life experiences and personalities that make it hard for us to believe? God knows our hearts. I believe he will give us a chance to grow as much as WE want to grow.

In the Bible, Jesus separated the "sheep from the goats" based on how they treated others. Not on whether or not they went to the temple regularly. I know my husband has a good and loving heart, so I don't worry so much abt if he's "active."

As far as quotes, I believe Joseph Smith said something about not letting God separate him from Emma, even if he had to personally go to hell to get her and bring her back. And 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 was helpful to me also in the past. (Though these days I can't say I really "believe," any more than he does, just that I like to "hang on" in practice.)

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PiperAlpha
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Re: In need of hope.

Post by PiperAlpha » 26 May 2013, 20:00

Pentium, I think you need to find a way to let go of what you hear on Sunday about conditions of God's love and go with what feels right in your heart.

I just had a good discussion with a released bishop who is faithful and strong in his testimony, and what he reiterated to me was that based on his experience, and how small a percentage of god's children will meet the temple criteria in this life, surely the plan is flawed unless we embrace how much larger the Atonement can be and that surely a way will be made for so many more of us in this life besides just the lucky few who enjoy temple blessings.

The plan just does not make sense unless you step away from such limiting factors, and instead have faith in goodness.

Love your husband for the good he does. Live your life based on what you feel is right. All else will fall into place.
“As individually and collectively we increase our knowledge, acceptance, and application of gospel principles, we become less dependent on Church programs. Our lives become gospel centered.”
Elder Ronald E. Poelman, General Conference Oct 1984

pentium3
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Joined: 20 May 2013, 12:44

Re: In need of hope.

Post by pentium3 » 26 May 2013, 20:36

Thanks PiperAlpha & Thankful. I went to church today and left feeling fine. But as I meandered through facebook, I noticed a link called Mormon think...ever heard of it? I read some faith shaking articles about deceptions of Joseph Smith and others and feel sick all over again. Because if those things are true...than I can't help but feel deceived. Part of me would be relieved if I could believe the church was a fraud and walk away...but I can't walk away really. I am living in Ut surrounded by my ever faithful Mormon family...My Mom is a Saint, truly. And she loves this church and it would crush her if I left it. I know, I have to live for myself... not to please anyone else, but I'm not sure it would be worth it even if I feel convinced the church isn't "true". It has truth, and a lot of good to offer...my children are happy there and I'm careful to "debrief" them if their lesson is harsh or too black and white. This being easily "tossed to and fro" is exhausting, I'm fine and then I'm shaken...over and over again...year after year. I never thought I would be grateful for my husbands loss of faith in Mormonism, but he knows what I'm going through and is so supportive and loving. I will focus on that tonight...I am blessed with a wonderful marriage .

Curt Sunshine
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Re: In need of hope.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 May 2013, 21:01

We have a thread about Mormon Think. They bill themselves as strictly factual and educational / informational, but everything is slanted negatively. Literally, if there are multiple ways to view something, they will pick the negative one every time.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

pentium3
Posts: 33
Joined: 20 May 2013, 12:44

Re: In need of hope.

Post by pentium3 » 26 May 2013, 21:32

It defiantly had a negative feel to it. I've always avoided delving too deep in to church history because I was afraid of what I would find, but I think I need to so that I can make some judgements for myself. I'm so glad to have this sounding board, thank you to the beautiful people who created this site :clap:

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mackay11
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In need of hope.

Post by mackay11 » 26 May 2013, 21:41

Ray Degraw wrote:We have a thread about Mormon Think. They bill themselves as strictly factual and educational / informational, but everything is slanted negatively. Literally, if there are multiple ways to views something, they will pick the negative one every time.
+1 Mormonthink is run by someone who has openly stated that he wants to expose the church as a fraud. It is a useful resource if you want to read the words of the critics all in one place. But I'd encourage you to try something more balanced. I love Wikipedia for the fact that it has 'right to reply' on both 'sides' and lots of original sources for its claims. It's always best to read the full original quote if you can.

Welcome to the site. This has been (and still is) a place of solitude and discovery for me.

My wife went inactive about 3 years ago while I was very TBM. My own FC followed a couple of years later. I still take the kids and my wife attends occasionally. I've made peace with my different perspectives to the other members but have found enough in our expression of the gospel to reconcile what I can't accept.

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PiperAlpha
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 05:14

Re: In need of hope.

Post by PiperAlpha » 27 May 2013, 04:48

pentium3 wrote:It defiantly had a negative feel to it. I've always avoided delving too deep in to church history because I was afraid of what I would find, but I think I need to so that I can make some judgements for myself.
just don't run faster than you have strength. All that history isn't going anywhere...take time to read it but not as a way to feed your anger or frustration that you may feel from all of that stuff never being taught to you by your church that you trusted. Also, realize that if it was all so clearly all proof it is false, none of us would still be here. As Ray said, some groups choose to focus on the negative, others only focus on the positive. So embrace the various views.

Remember that optical illusion of the old hag and the beautiful young lady? It is the same picture. Nothing of the picture changes when you see one or the other. Both pictures are there to be seen. The group seeing the old lady is not wrong, the group seeing the young lady is not wrong, even if the other groups argue loudly or forcefully about it. Keep that in mind as you study from various sources of information.

I think you are doing a good job of listening to your own spirit. These were some things I picked up on in your posts:
- you are in a good marriage (it's great you see that and you should make those important relationships priorities)
- your mom is a saint - isn't that something to also consider? How could the church be all bad or false when some devout Mormons especially family who you trust are sincere, can produce good fruits?
- your children benefit from it
- there are things you feel the church has blessed your life - don't throw those out with the dirty bath water
- you can sense the negativity of some groups or opinions - listen to those feelings and learn from what they are telling you
- similarly, some things you hear at church frustrate you - listen to those also and learn from what you disagree with at church...you can disagree with others at church, it is ok to do so.
- you live in the heart of the culture, and the fact it is all around you makes it hard to escape - that is a good, honest observation. It is a factor on why some people choose to StayLDS

I like how you are taking what you are learning about history and still holding on to your personal experience and clinging to your cultural roots. That is important to keep that perspective as you journey.

Also remember you are not alone, although you may journey alone, so many others have journeyed it also. There is some comfort knowing you can get through it, even if it takes a long time.

I personally liked Rough Stone Rolling as a source of history. It is written to present the things we know have happened, but tries not to draw conclusions about it. I liked seeing the flawed prophet Joseph, and yet think one can still believe he did amazing things, and does not need to be made into the size of Paul Bunyon to be a historical figure of great worth.
“As individually and collectively we increase our knowledge, acceptance, and application of gospel principles, we become less dependent on Church programs. Our lives become gospel centered.”
Elder Ronald E. Poelman, General Conference Oct 1984

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