Hi

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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kyle315
Posts: 3
Joined: 30 Aug 2021, 13:12

Hi

Post by kyle315 » 30 Aug 2021, 16:41

I'm "Kyle". I have doubts, but not about anything to do with religion. No, my doubts are about the institution and the doctrine. I'll be asking the occasional questions.
Thanks in advance for tolerating me and helping me out.

AmyJ
Posts: 1023
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Hi

Post by AmyJ » 31 Aug 2021, 04:57

Generally, we are glad to help:)

Can you help us to help you by providing clarification on what "religion", "institution" and "doctrine" mean to you please?

For good or ill, a faith transition generally involves figuring out that those 3 concepts are no longer the same, and sorting out what it means for the individual.

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nibbler
Posts: 4673
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Hi

Post by nibbler » 31 Aug 2021, 05:52

Welcome!

Feel free to ask any time.
If ever I should wish for a retreat, whither I might steal from the world and its distractions, and dream quietly away the remnant of a troubled life, I know of none more promising than this little valley.”
― Washington Irving

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DarkJedi
Posts: 7553
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Hi

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Aug 2021, 09:19

Welcome. I think my doubts were/are similar. Much more about dogma and what I now call pseudo-doctrine than anything else. Ask away, there are many varied and diverse opinions here.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Roy
Posts: 6434
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Hi

Post by Roy » 31 Aug 2021, 09:24

Welcome friend.

We are a motley crew here. None of us have all the answers but we do have some theories, paradigms, tips, and techniques that have worked for us in our individual journeys. We are happy to share the road for a time and trade notes. (your mileage may vary)
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

kyle315
Posts: 3
Joined: 30 Aug 2021, 13:12

Re: Hi

Post by kyle315 » 31 Aug 2021, 16:51

AmyJ wrote:
31 Aug 2021, 04:57
Generally, we are glad to help:)

Can you help us to help you by providing clarification on what "religion", "institution" and "doctrine" mean to you please?
Hi Amy,
I would be haapy to provide clarification.

"Religion" in this case would be Christianity
"Institution" in this case would be The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
"Doctrine" in this case would be the tenets of the Gospel as taught by the "Institution"

AmyJ
Posts: 1023
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Hi

Post by AmyJ » 01 Sep 2021, 05:32

kyle315 wrote:
31 Aug 2021, 16:51
"Religion" in this case would be Christianity.
"Institution" in this case would be The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"Doctrine" in this case would be the tenets of the Gospel as taught by the "Institution".
You might enjoy C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity" or "The Screwtape Letters". I read them a while back and they were useful for thinking about Christian topics and a relationship with God.

A side effect of increasing doubt in the "Institution" and to a degree, it's "doctrines" is that the weight of moral authority that was previously assigned to the church is mentally re-assigned back to you. If you can't trust the church to provide a moral compass to the degree that it did, who can you trust? The answer starts with you - because you have the most "skin in the game" as it were for how you are living your life and who you want to be.

SIDE NOTE: This is the issue that causes the most division in relationships, I have found. A lot of people inside the church are VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with a person using their agency in this way to act on the principle of "agency" and own critical thinking about their choices independent of church sanction. In theory, a person can get differing revelation from the church or its agent, but the church has problems or is uncomfortable when the individual does so (more often then not).

2 Side Questions to Consider:
- Who gets to tell you what to do?
- What are you looking for in terms of scripture? Everyone writes their own canon of "scripture" - the stuff that they read/see that they find useful and influences their behavior and choices. For example, a case can be made that "Lord of the Rings" is scriptural for our time or like scripture because of how well-known it is and inspiring to people. When the church canon of scripture becomes less relevant through doubts, replacing it in an individual's life does drift to the surface - at least what parameters to look for for personal scripture.

Roy
Posts: 6434
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Hi

Post by Roy » 02 Sep 2021, 11:42

AmyJ wrote:
01 Sep 2021, 05:32
A side effect of increasing doubt in the "Institution" and to a degree, it's "doctrines" is that the weight of moral authority that was previously assigned to the church is mentally re-assigned back to you. If you can't trust the church to provide a moral compass to the degree that it did, who can you trust? The answer starts with you - because you have the most "skin in the game" as it were for how you are living your life and who you want to be.

SIDE NOTE: This is the issue that causes the most division in relationships, I have found. A lot of people inside the church are VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with a person using their agency in this way to act on the principle of "agency" and own critical thinking about their choices independent of church sanction. In theory, a person can get differing revelation from the church or its agent, but the church has problems or is uncomfortable when the individual does so (more often then not).
The catalyst for my faith crisis was the stillbirth of our third child. One of the factors in my FC was that the church does not have a clear answer to what happens to stillborn babies. They are not sealed to us in the temple. From my research it appears that I get to decide. Does she get resurrected to live with us forever? does her spirit get recycled into the body of a subsequent child? Could her spirit get sent to a different "eternal" family"? Is it possible that no spirit was sent from the premortal realm and therefore the fetal/infant body was always just a husk or shell waiting to be inhabited with the "breathe of life"? The answers to each of these questions is up to me and my wife.

This was a very uncomfortable place to be in initially. No answers from the Prophet? No covenants that "bind" God in the eternal realm? No priesthood power passed down through the generations to form unending chains? No temple rituals or ceremonies to solemnize such covenants? Just me and my wife and what we think might best fit our personalities, our desires, and our circumstances.

Anyway, after going through that process of prayerfully deciding for ourselves, I discovered 1) that there was much more wiggle room in the church than I had realized on a host of issues and 2) that I had the spiritual compass within me to make judgements and even "doctrine" as it might apply to me personally. In short, I discovered that I can be trusted to chart my own course.

I choose to chart my course within the framework of Mormonism because Mormonism is my heritage and my tribe.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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