Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Curt Sunshine » 24 Sep 2016, 22:37

What is your purpose in this thread, Shawn?

I truly don't know and want to understand.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Shawn
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Shawn » 28 Sep 2016, 16:01

Ray, I was studying the 19th century teachings regarding marriage and discovered Nelly and Abby. It summarizes many things that were taught and I found it very interesting so I decided to share it. It could be used when discussing current marriage issues. I imagine a conversion like this:

Bob: I can’t believe gay people think they should have the right to get married. The Church will never get on board with that. They can suffer from same-sex attraction without acting on it. They just have to keep the law of chastity like everyone else and then they can be active in the Church and bla bla bla bla.

Me: Well, Bob, I have come to the conclusion that the one-wife system not only degenerates the human family both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; it is a lure to temptation, and has always proved a curse to a people. Hence I see the wisdom of God in not tolerating any such system among the celestial worthies who are to be kings and queens unto God for ever. But dear friend, the great question is this—will we unite with the plurality Order of Ancient Patriarchs, or will we consent voluntarily to be doomed to eternal celibacy?

Bob: WTH?

Me: Oh, I was just saying what used to be taught about monogamy and polygamy. But I’m sure what is taught by the Church about gay marriage today will never change.

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Sheldon
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Sheldon » 29 Sep 2016, 09:33

Shawn wrote:Me: Well, Bob, I have come to the conclusion that the one-wife system not only degenerates the human family both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; it is a lure to temptation, and has always proved a curse to a people. Hence I see the wisdom of God in not tolerating any such system among the celestial worthies who are to be kings and queens unto God for ever. But dear friend, the great question is this—will we unite with the plurality Order of Ancient Patriarchs, or will we consent voluntarily to be doomed to eternal celibacy?

Bob: WTH?

Me: Oh, I was just saying what used to be taught about monogamy and polygamy. But I’m sure what is taught by the Church about gay marriage today will never change.
Shame on you Shawn, you caused me to burst forth with "Loud Laughter". Now I must repent!

Roy
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Roy » 29 Sep 2016, 14:18

Shawn wrote:Me: Oh, I was just saying what used to be taught about monogamy and polygamy. But I’m sure what is taught by the Church about gay marriage today will never change.
Shawn, I for one am glad that you shared this because it gives me with such a clear example of how this doctrine was taught and understood by early church members.

I would caution you however against using this information against church members. In the exchange that you imagine it could not possibly help and is very likely to hurt. In general, I try very hard to minimize "WTH" moments.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Sheldon
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Sheldon » 30 Sep 2016, 08:57

Roy wrote: I try very hard to minimize "WTH" moments.
I believe most of us are here on StayLDS because we had WTH (Heck) moments. I'm sure the Q15 is Heck bent on keeping the general membership from having WTH moments, because sometime the result is leaving the church. The Essays are an example of trying to minimize these WTH moments.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Curt Sunshine » 01 Oct 2016, 09:37

Thanks for the clarification, Shawn. I appreciate it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Nelly and Abby Discuss Polygamy

Post by Roy » 02 Oct 2016, 08:41

Sheldon wrote:
Roy wrote: I try very hard to minimize "WTH" moments.
I believe most of us are here on StayLDS because we had WTH (Heck) moments. I'm sure the Q15 is Heck bent on keeping the general membership from having WTH moments, because sometime the result is leaving the church. The Essays are an example of trying to minimize these WTH moments.
What I mean by WTH moments is that there is a discussion going on about the semi-political legalization of gay marriage and then I bust out with "in your face" polygamy and then everyone is left scratching their heads thinking "WTH (Is wrong with this guy?)".

If I were involved in such a hypothetical discussion, I might say that science, the personal experience of many gay people, and the LDS church agrees that being gay is largely not a choice. Living alone without the companionship of someone to love is not a very good way to live. If one of my children were to be gay, I would not want them to be alone their whole life.

This way the discussion can continue and they can see that there are reasonable ways to disagree about this issue.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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