Multi-generational families

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7315
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Sep 2015, 10:30

SunbeltRed wrote:Perhaps MGF's have become the focus because they realize that convert baptisms in the West are hitting a wall and will probably continue to decrease (as a %of population) over the next many years. Thus, how do we keep what we have? How to attempt to stem the tide of return missionaries leaving the church? Patrol the borders, talk about dynasty, lay on guilt and shame at increasing levels.

I'm just not seeing how this is going to appeal to people or help, but I'm not very smart and cannot see the future, so I don't know seems to be a common answer I give a lot these days.
I agree. As I have thought about this it seems like exactly what they're saying. I also agree it's not going to have the affect they think it is, but they said they have prayed and pondered it for a long time and they're the prophets, not me.

(Clouded by the dark side the future is. Difficult to see. Guessing is fun though!)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
hawkgrrrl
Site Admin
Posts: 3537
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 16:27

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by hawkgrrrl » 02 Sep 2015, 10:50

Someone made the point that this was really for a leadership meeting; it just got shared with the lay membership. The issue with that is that leaders are more concerned with higher level goals and trends whereas members internalize messages from leaders as applies (or doesn't) to their own situation (not to a population which is where trends emerge). It's like telling a group of salespeople selling cars that the real key is to get customer loyalty through referrals and getting people to buy a car for their kids also. But when you take that message out to the consumers directly the message is off. "But I only need one car." "I already have a car." "I can't afford a car." "I bike for health reasons." "How greedy are they? I already bought one car. What do they want from me? Blood?" "I don't have any kids or friends who need a car."

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7315
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Sep 2015, 11:30

hawkgrrrl wrote:Someone made the point that this was really for a leadership meeting; it just got shared with the lay membership. The issue with that is that leaders are more concerned with higher level goals and trends whereas members internalize messages from leaders as applies (or doesn't) to their own situation (not to a population which is where trends emerge). It's like telling a group of salespeople selling cars that the real key is to get customer loyalty through referrals and getting people to buy a car for their kids also. But when you take that message out to the consumers directly the message is off. "But I only need one car." "I already have a car." "I can't afford a car." "I bike for health reasons." "How greedy are they? I already bought one car. What do they want from me? Blood?" "I don't have any kids or friends who need a car."
It's part of the video that's supposed to be shown all the way down to at least the ward council level. I saw it in stake council, each bishop was given a flash drive and instructed to use the whole thing, both parts, in in their ward/branch councils. There was no mention of not using it during fifth Sunday lessons and so forth, and frankly some if it has some weight to it. I like Elder Cook's plea to give sacrament meeting back to the Savior at the end of part one, for instance, and wouldn't hesitate to share that with the general membership. I also liked Elder Anderson's portion about the sacrament being much more than just renewing our baptismal covenants. I'm not so sure it wasn't intended to be shared with the general populace - it's not like those secret seminary trainings.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
SunbeltRed
Posts: 349
Joined: 20 Jun 2014, 11:07

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by SunbeltRed » 02 Sep 2015, 12:33

DarkJedi wrote:
hawkgrrrl wrote:Someone made the point that this was really for a leadership meeting; it just got shared with the lay membership. The issue with that is that leaders are more concerned with higher level goals and trends whereas members internalize messages from leaders as applies (or doesn't) to their own situation (not to a population which is where trends emerge). It's like telling a group of salespeople selling cars that the real key is to get customer loyalty through referrals and getting people to buy a car for their kids also. But when you take that message out to the consumers directly the message is off. "But I only need one car." "I already have a car." "I can't afford a car." "I bike for health reasons." "How greedy are they? I already bought one car. What do they want from me? Blood?" "I don't have any kids or friends who need a car."
It's part of the video that's supposed to be shown all the way down to at least the ward council level. I saw it in stake council, each bishop was given a flash drive and instructed to use the whole thing, both parts, in in their ward/branch councils. There was no mention of not using it during fifth Sunday lessons and so forth, and frankly some if it has some weight to it. I like Elder Cook's plea to give sacrament meeting back to the Savior at the end of part one, for instance, and wouldn't hesitate to share that with the general membership. I also liked Elder Anderson's portion about the sacrament being much more than just renewing our baptismal covenants. I'm not so sure it wasn't intended to be shared with the general populace - it's not like those secret seminary trainings.

Same here, flash drives went out to the Bishops to train the ward council and use as inspired. DJ, I am with you, I think the first portion of the training of bringing more Christ to the worship service is good, I don't disagree with it, in fact I think its a step in the right direction.

It's the second part that has my hackles on edge, because I have seen my mom internalize the failure part of the message very deeply, so deeply that it is a reason I will probably never leave the church while she is still alive. Promote Sabbath Day, be my guest, in and of itself I think it can be a good thing, but lay on the "your and your children's eternal salvation is at stake" rhetoric along with it and "the other guy" is getting ready to make an appearance.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16851
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 Sep 2015, 15:56

I love the concept of multi-generational families and the concept of eternal sealing.

I love the concept of making our worship service more worshipful.

I loathe the idea that parents can be blamed unilaterally for their children's choices, even as I understand that many choices by children actually can be attributed directly to the actions and choices of parents.

I have NO problem with the concept and focus of this initiative. I don't like at least one of the applications / implications / implementations of the message - but that isn't surprising, since I don't have a man-crush on Elder Bednar. Much of what he says just doesn't work for me, and I am okay with that, since much of what some others I like say doesn't work for others.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
Posts: 6217
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Multi-generational families

Post by Roy » 02 Sep 2015, 16:15

Ray DeGraw wrote:I loathe the idea that parents can be blamed unilaterally for their children's choices, even as I understand that many choices by children actually can be attributed directly to the actions and choices of parents.
I agree. Correlation - yes. Cause and effect - no.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Post Reply