Was 1978 the right year?

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Shawn » 08 Jun 2012, 15:00

I read all 75 pages. It didn't make me feel any better.
Dang. It really helped me.
But honestly, it doesn't help the problem I have with the church perpetuating a policy for over a hundred years prior to this. It is good there are prophets that can recognize or correct our mistakes of the past. But it doesn't mean there are no mistakes or sins in our past. It just doesn't.

And I wish the church would just say that and own it, not try to excuse it.
It seems to me that the Church has owned up to it and it's in the past now.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Jun 2012, 17:00

The Church has repudiated all racism in its newsroom release, and I appreciate that - especially since it allows me to parse it as an indirect admission that the ban was racist in nature. I really do appreciate much of the movement recently in this regard - and I, personally, am not looking for an official apology, even though I think it would be cool.

It's not behind us, however - since there still are too many members who hang on to blatantly and subtly racist ideas and racist justifications for the ban.

I have two black "sons" and a black friend in church who has spoken with me in depth about what she has observed in the Church - and I have seen first-hand that it is not behind us yet. It should be, but it isn't. That's a problem.

If you are interested in three specific posts about this, read the following from my personal blog. The first and last ones are personal reflections; the middle one is a compilation of quotes from modern LDS leaders about racism and the ban:

"Reflections from a Mixed-Race Family" (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2007 ... amily.html)

"Repudiating Racist Justifications Once and for All" (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2009 ... -once.html)

"We Must eradicate Even Subtly Racist Messages" (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011 ... acist.html)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Jun 2012, 17:01

Everyone else:

Try to be gentle. Shawn is new here and seems sincere. :D
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
Heber13
Site Admin
Posts: 7219
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Heber13 » 09 Jun 2012, 03:21

Ray Degraw wrote:Everyone else:

Try to be gentle. Shawn is new here and seems sincere. :D
Ray, you beat me to it...I was logging on to give Shawn some props.
Shawn wrote:Dang. It really helped me.
I like the fact you find this helpful to you, honestly. I hope you feel welcome here, and the discussions are healthy even if we disagree about some things. :thumbup:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

alaskaboy19
Posts: 45
Joined: 06 Jun 2012, 19:09
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by alaskaboy19 » 09 Jun 2012, 18:29

No, I don't believe that if the ban had been lifted earlier, blacks would've faced discimination in the church. Obviously, the ban prevented black men from having the priesthood, and black men and women from entering the temple, but it didn't prevent them from being baptised and being part of congregations. Also, I think that most members have always been loyal enough to the Prophet that when he comes out with a revelation, they accept it. For members to display racist behavior towards any other members, at any time, before or after the ban, would've been apostasy and sin in its purest form.

There isn't as much racial understanding in the church as I would like there to be. We hold back on exploring solutions to understanding the nature of the priesthood ban, dark skin as a punishement in Biblical/BoM times, the concept of God having a chosen people, and the plausiblity of natural selection giving a human population more individual characteristics over time. Sometimes we may even try to hide it.

How many times in the Bible is it been reiterated that the Hebrews were God's chosen people, and others were, to some degree, lacking the same, if any, capacity to achieve a spiritual relationship with God? It is made clear to us that the Lord does regard race in some way.

I encourage everyone in the church to heavily ponder and seek revelation to the topic of race. Its one of those things where you really have to be patient and have Faith that Heavenly Father will reveal to you the answers. It can't be taken lightly. You can't ignore it.
"In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
–George Orwell, 1984

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
-John 8:32

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored"
-Aldous Huxley, British novelist

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Jun 2012, 20:27

For members to display racist behavior towards any other members, at any time, before or after the ban, would've been apostasy and sin in its purest form.


Yes, it would have - and it happened without being seen as such, in many, many instances for over 100 years.

Again, I prefer to think of what we can learn about ourselves (humans) and God in looking at this. I think we learn that humans really have sucked at loving those who are different in some obvious way like skin color, and we learn that God allows us to be bigots if we insist on it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

alaskaboy19
Posts: 45
Joined: 06 Jun 2012, 19:09
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by alaskaboy19 » 10 Jun 2012, 03:36

Ray Degraw wrote: The Priesthood ban should be the flagship of our rejection of infallibility and the anchor of our acceptance of the Restoration as a process rather than an event, imo.
Very well said, Ray.
"In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
–George Orwell, 1984

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
-John 8:32

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored"
-Aldous Huxley, British novelist

User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by Shawn » 11 Jun 2012, 10:09

I do feel welcome. Thanks, everyone. :smile:

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5561
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by SamBee » 11 Jun 2012, 10:10

I think if the ban had been lifted earlier, it would have got rid of the more bigoted elements of the church earlier. There might have been a schism, but it would have killed two birds with one stone.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: Was 1978 the right year?

Post by cwald » 11 Jun 2012, 18:03

I wish the church would have been out front leading the way in the civil rights movement, rather than lagging behind.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Post Reply