Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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LookingHard
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by LookingHard » 25 Mar 2017, 04:19

hawkgrrrl wrote:
24 Mar 2017, 10:37
LookingHard wrote:
24 Mar 2017, 06:36
DoubtingTom wrote:
23 Mar 2017, 14:28
... I also try to remember that I am the one who is changing. When we married (in the temple), we made covenants and promises and I'm the one who is changing the deal. I recognize how hard it is on her.
I have tried hard with my wife to realize the same thing. It is hard for me, but I think she feels more turmoil about our differences than I do now - and I caused that.
I can't tell whether I think that's a good attitude to have or not. Change is inevitable in marriages that last for decades. We didn't promise we would never change. Where fidelity exists, people need to be less brittle about change, even in belief.
I think I get what you are saying. My focus now is on the shorter term and I just shocked her a few months ago bursting out of the belief closet. I need to be patient and extra loving. Mid to long term - she does need to deal with the change. I will give her some time to adjust.

amateurparent
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Joined: 19 Jan 2014, 20:43

Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by amateurparent » 25 Mar 2017, 06:05

The problem isn't going to the opera. Going to the opera is a healthy thing to do.

The problem is being told that I will be joining the opera and the rest of my life will be focused on preparing for opera, performing in opera events, memorizing lines, mentoring opera singers and constantly advertising every day for the next operatic event. It is being told I need to give away a certain number of tickets at work .. and knowing that my colleagues all prefer hip-hop and heavy metal.

And recognizing that while I don't hate opera, I would like to listen to some hip-hop, rock and country and figure out what music I really do prefer. And feeling a little uneasy when I realize I don't really like opera very much.
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.

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SamBee
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by SamBee » 25 Mar 2017, 10:06

In spiritual terms, most hip hop and rock would be the equivalent of the horoscopes in the paper and "Hopi" ear candles. :lol: Except for heavy metal :evil:
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 25 Mar 2017, 11:38

I know quite a few people who affiliate with one religion but attend a different one because their spouse is more "devout" than they are. I have a good friend who attended the LDS Church for 30 years simply to support his wife - and because he didn't have a different community of believers he loved more. He didn't believe the doctrine, but he loved his wife.

I think there are many, many thousands of people sitting in chapels every week who are like that. Frankly, I admire and respect them every bit as much a single the solid, unquestioning believers - and, sometimes, even more.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by SamBee » 25 Mar 2017, 14:53

There was a guy I heard on the radio a few years ago whose son was going through his bar mitzvah and first RC communion in the same year.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

DoubtingTom
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Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 12:13

Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by DoubtingTom » 26 Mar 2017, 06:05

Well I'm off to today's opera, plus the pre-opera meeting I attend with the conductor. I'm doing a social experiment today - wearing a non-white shirt just to see how many comments I get. Ever since my calling as EQP, I've gone totally orthoprax in my wardrobe, but the fact is, I enjoy wearing my other shirts too so today will be the first time in months. Probably no one will say anything, but I'm curious. Funny how there's even a stigma around what color shirt men wear...

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FaithfulSkeptic
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by FaithfulSkeptic » 26 Mar 2017, 06:30

amateurparent wrote:
25 Mar 2017, 06:05
The problem isn't going to the opera. Going to the opera is a healthy thing to do.

The problem is being told that I will be joining the opera and the rest of my life will be focused on preparing for opera, performing in opera events, memorizing lines, mentoring opera singers and constantly advertising every day for the next operatic event. It is being told I need to give away a certain number of tickets at work .. and knowing that my colleagues all prefer hip-hop and heavy metal.

And recognizing that while I don't hate opera, I would like to listen to some hip-hop, rock and country and figure out what music I really do prefer. And feeling a little uneasy when I realize I don't really like opera very much.
This!

Like it or not, my whole life revolves around the opera.
I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.” Dieter F. Uchtdorf, October 2014

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Reuben
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by Reuben » 27 Mar 2017, 05:25

This whole thread would be offensive to most of the people who attend the opera. The idea that it may not be the best kind of musical theater is threatening. Even classifying opera as "musical theater" - i.e. not affirming that it's in its own class and is therefore incomparable - is threatening. Even worse is the idea that an avid fan of opera could sour on it.

This is fun!
My intro

Love before dogma. Truth before loyalty. Knowledge before certainty.

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SamBee
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Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by SamBee » 27 Mar 2017, 06:20

Reuben wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 05:25
This whole thread would be offensive to most of the people who attend the opera. The idea that it may not be the best kind of musical theater is threatening. Even classifying opera as "musical theater" - i.e. not affirming that it's in its own class and is therefore incomparable - is threatening. Even worse is the idea that an avid fan of opera could sour on it.

This is fun!
The thing is though that not all opera lovers like the same thing. I sat through Parsifal by Wagner and loved it but HMS Pinafore by Gilbert and Sullivan left me cold.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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nibbler
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Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Do you enjoy going to the opera?

Post by nibbler » 27 Mar 2017, 11:59

Curt Sunshine wrote:
25 Mar 2017, 11:38
I have a good friend who attended the LDS Church for 30 years simply to support his wife - and because he didn't have a different community of believers he loved more. He didn't believe the doctrine, but he loved his wife.
Oh? What's his StayLDS user ID? ;)

Anyone (other than LookingHard) remember that Simpsons episode (Make Room for Lisa) where Homer does everything Lisa likes in order to make her happy. Lisa has an epiphany where she starts to see things from Homer's perspective:

Lisa: Oh, no, now I'm dad! [background, from Homer's point of view, fades in. He's at a ballet] Oh, and I'm at a stupid boring ballet. [yawns, and the camera's "eye" closes. We hear snoring noises]

Lisa: [in hallucination] Dad! Wake up! [camera "eye" opens] Your snoring is disturbing the dancers. [camera looks at the dancers, who are staring at Homer, tapping their feet. Then it pans back to Lisa. We can see Homer reflected in her eyes] How can you embarrass me like this? Oh, you won't sit through anything that doesn't have car crashes.

Lisa: [as Homer] I'm sorry, honey. [to "himself"] Gee, why is Lisa so mad at me? [twists his ballet program] I only came to this dump so I could be with her. And what happened to my big sandwich?

...

Lisa: Gee, I should cut Dad some slack. After all, he did take me to the ballet, and the Smithsonian exhibit. In fact, he takes me lots of places he hates.
amateurparent wrote:
25 Mar 2017, 06:05
The problem isn't going to the opera. Going to the opera is a healthy thing to do.

The problem is being told that I will be joining the opera and the rest of my life will be focused on preparing for opera, performing in opera events, memorizing lines, mentoring opera singers and constantly advertising every day for the next operatic event. It is being told I need to give away a certain number of tickets at work .. and knowing that my colleagues all prefer hip-hop and heavy metal.

And recognizing that while I don't hate opera, I would like to listen to some hip-hop, rock and country and figure out what music I really do prefer. And feeling a little uneasy when I realize I don't really like opera very much.
:lol:

And to extend the analogy. Do I enjoy going to the opera? I guess, I dunno. Do I enjoy going to the exact same opera again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again... ? :think: Knowing there are other operas out there that I haven't seen yet weighs on the decision. Heck, maybe I could even write my own opera.

Great all this talk about opera and now I really want to see a fat lady give the closing prayer during the first session of general conference so I can get on with the rest of my weekend. (this is where I remind people that humor is sometimes offensive :angel: :angel: )
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
— Hippocrates

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