I Came Out To My Wife

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Old-Timer
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by Old-Timer » 21 Sep 2016, 18:57

[Admin Note]: Shawn, you know the mission of this site. We all love you and feel for you and know how difficult your physiological issues are, but we also have a clear mission.

It truly pains me to say this, seriously, but if you are actively trying to destroy your wife's happiness (ignoring her own wishes and desires because she can't understand yours) and actively trying to convince others who are happy in the LDS Church to leave, I'm not sure this is the right place for you at this time.

If you can see that you are acting in the exact same way you are condemning In others, and if you can learn to support your wife as you want her to support you, we will be here for you - since we truly do care for and feel for you. However, we can't be a support group in your efforts to destroy other people's faith and drag them away from the LDS Church when they want to stay.

[Personal Comment]: God bless you on your journey, friend. You are in my prayers.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by Roy » 22 Sep 2016, 09:21

Shawn wrote:I don't want any of my kids to waste their time and our money on a mission.
The church (even with all its faults) can be a great support structure for raising great kids that are good students and good citizens. Serving a mission for me gave me a good work ethic and proper study habits. I had taken some college classes before and got a D in one. I retook the same class after my mission and the teacher told me that he wished every student was like me. I reminded him that I had almost flunked his class a few years ago. "I grew up a lot in the last 2 years", I told him. If you were to take away the church as a support structure what would you replace it with? There could be long term consequences to consider.

I wonder what would happen if you made a deal with your wife. That you would support reasonable family church participation (for the good of the family) if she honored your request to stop paying tithing on your income.

Would that work for you?

I hope that you find a way to calm the contention in your home. May you find peace friend.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Holy Cow
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by Holy Cow » 22 Sep 2016, 10:05

Shawn wrote:I confess that I really am trying to convince her to leave. It's the right thing to do. I am convinced of that. I also "think it is important to value a spouse enough to be willing to let them make their own choices about religion."
Shawn,
It's rough hearing the anguish your feeling through all of this. I completely relate to the frustration and anger that you can experience when it feels like the church comes between you and your family, because it feels like your spouse is forced into choosing you or the celestial kingdom, but not both. I can't count how many hours I've spent feeling angry, bitter, and resentful about this. Dude, I spend most of the past year separated from my wife because of this stuff, so I completely hear your frustration. I agree with you that it would be so much easier if you and your wife were on the same page, and saw things equally. Unfortunately, you're not on the same page. But, when you read what you wrote in the little snippet that I included above, I think it really wraps up what you're both feeling. You're saying that you're trying to convince her to leave, but then also saying that a spouse should be willing to let their spouse make their own choices about religion. Take this as the opinion of a guy who probably doesn't know what he's talking about, but I think your marriage would be best served if you extended an olive branch by letting your wife make her own choices about her religion. Nobody wants to feel like they're being controlled or manipulated. You don't want her to become resentful towards you. Try to focus on common ground and mutual respect. That's about 1,000 times harder to practice than it is to say it, I know. I'm hearing your pain, and I just hope that you can avoid some of the crap that my FC put me through. I know there are others here who have seen their marriages struggle as a result of being 'unequally yoked.' It's a rough experience to go through! Take the advice that DJ always gives to newcomers on the site (which really helped me when I first joined), to take things slowly. That's great advice in many situations, and I think this is one of them. Good luck, man! We're pulling for you.
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139

amateurparent
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by amateurparent » 22 Sep 2016, 10:45

Shawn:

My marriage has never been better. I have left the LDS church. DH has stayed. We pay tithing on what he makes. I do not tithe to the LDS church. I do donate to causes that serve the poor and afflicted.

We both feel that God is for us -- not against us -- that takes care of any Celestial Family issues. We do not feel unequally yoked as we still pull together as a team. We don't share the same religion. We love to discuss AND argue about politics. We like being different from each other. DH is wonderful, kind, accepting of my choices, and sexy as hell.

About seeng children get married .. Children who are old enough to get married will make their own decisions. Whether they elope, do a destination wedding in Tahiti, or choose a temple wedding ceremony, YOU DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE. If they drag home a 3 armed, 5 eyed alien as a fiancé and decide to get married in a Wiccan skyclad ceremony, you welcome your new relation with open arms and be supportive of their adult choices. You do not get to manipulate the hell out of their lives now in order to make sure you can attend a theoretical wedding 15 years in the future. The reality is that your children's marriages and wedding ceremonies will have very little to do with you -- other than asking you to help finance those choices.

The big question is: are you loving your family or are you manipulating them?
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.

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LookingHard
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by LookingHard » 22 Sep 2016, 11:11

amateurparent wrote:DH is wonderful, kind, accepting of my choices, and sexy as hell.
Having meet your Hubby I can say I would agree, but I have no opinion on the last item :-)

I was planning on coming out to my wife in the next few months, but I had an issue that pushed me to do it sooner.

I only had 4 pages to read her and it was very much, "I can't say I know it is true", and lots of "I support you and our kids in staying fully in the church - in fact I support anybody that wants to stay." Lots of emphasis on "I am not an angry ex-mo that is going to be angry and the church, talk bad about the church, or try to have you leave." I even talked how I still would attend some meetings. I didn't get 2 pages into it before she was sobbing so much she couldn't really listen anymore. I told her that if she wanted to understand the why I would have to talk about a few items, but it was her call. She said she didn't want to talk about ANY details - not even the essays on lds.org.

I am not sure of my point, but I will say even though I was VERY explicit about how I would fully support her, it didn't go well. But it is fresh. I will have to see how things go over time.

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mom3
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by mom3 » 22 Sep 2016, 12:40

Shawn - I am tripling down on the What type of Spouse Will You Be?

My circumstances are the flip of AP's. My husband is out. I am in. My husband could probably be your soul mate in LDS religious frustration. But he honors me. He supports my calling. A week ago I was in charge of my entire Stake's Service Day. I'd never done anything that big. He was with me 100%. He helped me set it up, let me throw ideas at him, pointed out improvements, then worked his fanny off on the day of. In fact he was one of five men who stayed 2 hours longer than we planned because we had work still to complete. He never complained. Whined. Or made a scene. Ward members were all excited to see him. He didn't let it phase him. He was courteous to them. Even joking around with them when the topics wasn't "churchy."


It's been that way through the whole ride. Like you he would love us to match. But he hasn't let it be his be all, end all. Like you I would love to have a match spouse deal. But I wouldn't throw away 30 years of memories, experiences, fun, effort, etc. over it. I picked him, pursued him, and caught him. Right now our roads bend a little differently but who knows what the future holds.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by Roy » 22 Sep 2016, 15:13

LH. May God bless your family and redeem your marital struggle. I love the song "Broken Together". It speaks to the state of my marriage. We do not need to be perfect, nor even celestial. It is enough that we are "broken" together. If we bring our brokenness to the table together, then at the end of the day God can do his mighty work to accomplish our life "measure of our creation."
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

amateurparent
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Joined: 19 Jan 2014, 20:43

Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by amateurparent » 22 Sep 2016, 15:31

Roy, I just looked that song up. Simply amazing. Thank you so much for sharing.

There is nothing perfect about DH and myself. People often make comments about our obviously close relationship. We are so close because of our brokenness. We claim our differences, our issues, and just focus on taking care of each other really well. That makes us perfect for each other.

https://youtu.be/OEhRucEVzH8
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.

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LookingHard
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by LookingHard » 22 Sep 2016, 20:03

That link went to another song by the same band. It is a good song

Moderator note: I thought this would be a good place to place the link to the song AP and I were talking about. Roy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxELo-uD3c

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Shawn
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Re: I Came Out To My Wife

Post by Shawn » 23 Sep 2016, 09:24

Ray, I do understand the mission of this site and I’m sorry you had to write that. Thank you.

I need to chill out and think about how I can support reasonable church participation for the good of the family, like good ol’ Roy said.

You are right, Holy Cow. My wife and I are not on the same page right now and I need to accept that. I need to take things slowly. I’m sorry for the crap you’ve gone through.

Thanks for your thoughts, AP. But can I influence my family without manipulating them?

LH, I’m sorry it didn’t go very well when you talked to your wife. Give it some time, I guess.

mom, your husband sounds cool. I’ll try to be more like him.

EDIT: This might make just a little difference. I want to point out that my document is not like the CES Letter. I listed my questions and concerns without taking a position.

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