Correlation strikes again

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Mrs. SuperChicken
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Correlation strikes again

Post by Mrs. SuperChicken » 05 Aug 2016, 04:41

I got the regular email this week about our upcoming RS lesson this Sunday. I was surprised that the lesson was from the Ensign and a FAIR Mormon presentation.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/08/bein ... e?lang=eng

I read it and very much felt like it was another sit down and shut up if you don't agree article, and that is very much how it will be used on Sunday.

So I read the original presentation and I was surprised at how much I liked it.

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/ ... ans-church

Besides being dumbed down for the Ensign they took out all the parts that gently suggest the church is not always the best for women and emphasized or added to the parts that demonstrate the church is already the best place in the world for women to feel empowered.

Why is it that we have to take something that was a call for change and a positive hope for the future to be better and turn it into a weapon to beat the slightly unorthodox about the head.

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Mrs. SuperChicken
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Mrs. SuperChicken » 05 Aug 2016, 05:57

Ensign
I may also have the opportunity in this life to be a wife—if not in this life, then certainly in the next. This role is who I am in relation to a chosen equal partner, a husband. Though we are not the same—since nobody has the combination of gifts and traits that I have or that he has—we use our complementary attributes to try to become one. The word sealing is an excellent description of the eternal unifying potential of a marriage created by priesthood authority in a temple.

Original
I do not think “sealing” is an idly chosen word. And it is asking us to become unified in the same way that we are unified in this way. And so it takes probably a lifetime and beyond to create this unified, divine pair. But it is a transition from self-interest, and worried about me, to worrying about the unit. And basically we are saying in our sealed, divine unit – “I trust you and I have your best interests at heart, and I will be your advocate, I will look out for you and I will look for your greatest good.” And probably everybody in this room thinks that that is a very long and a probably interesting journey. But when you are sealed by authority, that divine pair has not only the ability but the authorized right to be creators. And so they are authorized to bring and nurture life. And that’s an incredibly powerful position. It’s a divine position that we’re here in on the earth.

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Mrs. SuperChicken
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Mrs. SuperChicken » 05 Aug 2016, 05:58

Ensign
I believe that misunderstandings regarding women’s roles arise when there is a disconnect between the doctrine and the practice of the doctrine. However, through continuing revelation from God to His prophets and to us through the Holy Ghost, we can continue to recognize and eliminate most misunderstandings that surface.

Original
I have to be candid that there are lots of people who would not agree that this is a church for women. And I think that the reason they feel that way is because of a disconnect that comes between our doctrine and sometimes the way that we practice our doctrine. And there has been a lot of discussion and a lot of disagreement and people have had painful experiences. There is just stuff that is plain wrong. And there are consequences, too. It would be absurd for me to stand up here and say that our political and our traditional and our cultural practices always live up to our doctrine. I’m not even sure that we fully grasp our doctrine. And to be honest, in my opinion, we can improve in many, many ways. We should and I think we will.

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Mrs. SuperChicken
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Mrs. SuperChicken » 05 Aug 2016, 06:02

And then all the great stuff that was left out
I think in our practice we also need more imagination. This is not a very powerful example, but I think that young women may be in danger of learning passive helplessness on their road to adult membership and the temple. Young men are setting up chairs and gathering palm fronds and shoveling walks, and home teaching. And I don’t know that we’ve been as imaginative as we ought to be. To think about what are the parallel paths that young women walk so that they are prepared for their adult roles. I also think we need better and more visible role models of men and women working together with their strong strengths that they each bring. I think we need to be more visible about that, not only in our congregations and in our families, but to the world. I think we are so interesting with this moderate doctrine of this way that men and women bring complimentary powers towards solving a solution. And both halves are needed. We ought to be more articulate and more visible about that.
Her story of being listened to in a council meeting that was mostly made up of men and how that needs to happen more in the church

Her discussing how great the world could be for women if there were no more whoredoms.

I really miss reality in our meetings - Sigh

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Sheldon
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Sheldon » 05 Aug 2016, 15:27

Mrs SuperChicken,

If you really are "Super" here is what you do: Take the full original text with you to the Sunday meeting. When they read a paragraph from the Ensign, you say "That is nice, but the original talk that this article is based added the following, which adds context and a deeper meaning to what is being said" The you read the original words.

If you do this, we'll let you drop the "Chicken" part of your moniker and you'll just be "Mrs Super" to us! :lolno:

Ann
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Ann » 05 Aug 2016, 17:17

Her original talk was much longer. It touched on so much more and raised questions. I don't think the edited version bears much resemblance to it. It has that pre-chewed quality to it - rhetorical question asked and answered. That's what I dislike about so many lessons, the essays, all of correlated materials lately: let us tell you what you think. In any discussion there should be room for positives, negatives and unknowns.

My comment seems unfair and unreasonable in some ways. I don't know how to shake the feeling.

Maybe you can bring in some of the original without hijacking the lesson?
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Mrs. SuperChicken
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Mrs. SuperChicken » 06 Aug 2016, 04:25

If you do this, we'll let you drop the "Chicken" part of your moniker and you'll just be "Mrs Super" to us! :lolno:
Funny!!

Taking the original sounds like a great idea!! If nothing else it should make things more interesting!
It has that pre-chewed quality to it - rhetorical question asked and answered. That's what I dislike about so many lessons, the essays, all of correlated materials lately: let us tell you what you think. In any discussion there should be room for positives, negatives and unknowns.
This says it exactly. The Ensign article says women at church are empowered intellectually. I guess that could be the author's experience, but it is not at all mine.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Aug 2016, 09:13

I would rather take the whole thing and insert the missing pieces in a positive way than not do so and be left with only classic murmuring.

You could say something like: "I love how the author also said . . ." - with a smile and an expression of gratitude for such insight.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Heber13
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Heber13 » 06 Aug 2016, 09:55

The challenge I often experience is that there is so much to say about a topic like this, so much background and depth and complexity to some issues, so much lacking in the lesson material, and the teacher has such little time to provide context and deliver a message...I think it is pretty common to cherry pick and hunt and peck for morsels to share with the class in trying to make it uplifting and inspiring. All teachers do that...at least I do as I teach.

In every lesson, there is more that could be said or should be covered. Correlation in some ways is responding to the constraints that exist for teachers, and not always creating the context problems. The risk is that by doing what they do...it feels like only one story is acceptable on a given topic, when there is much more, and many more perspectives that change the shade of truth being taught. Or it feels like the other material is hid or being marked for "do not read", when some of those parts are super important to me that it is frustrating they wouldn't include them for all.

I guess that is why I often wish they spend less time on announcements to make more time for a class that has more depth to the lesson.

That is another topic...I don't mean to thread jack. Just my thoughts on how I think to answer how I would approach this.

Context, to me, seems missing and desperately needed in so many of our correlated teaching materials.

What to do about it? I am not sure, and not all ward cultures are the same to know, but I guess I agree with Sheldon and Ray that there are moments we can try to speak up and bring missing information into the discussion, especially when it is needed or to steer it towards where a lesson should go
Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:The Ensign article says women at church are empowered intellectually
I think any opportunity you have to get to that point is, with whatever approach will work with the class and group you have, is really what is most appropriate.

That way, you're not an author of confusion or being divisive intentionally, you are staying true to the nature of the article, and making sure the class is. If they disagree or are being steered in a different direction, you pick your battles, but it seems fairly normal the correlated mateials will have missing parts, they always do (which is the pain we feel on them, right?). It is for us to fill those gaps in context and meaning in on our own with our own testimonies...and just bring additional material as needed to class and these lessons, or choose to study it on our own and not raise it in class, depending on how we feel moved to handle it.

But every lesson has more context and more depth for me to study and understand on my own. Some issues if brought up in one comment when I raise my hand doesn't give me the time to bring enough context to my comment, so I let it slide and talk to my kids or wife about it...and I cherish those discussions more than the class.

I have always felt part of going to church is practicing my skills to navigate these discussions, and check if I really am right on my interpretations.

The practical side of correlation cannot rob the truth.

I don't know if I stayed on topic there, MSC. Just my thoughts as I think about how I prepare my lessons or participate in others' and see the materials we have to work with, and what my responsibility is in talking about truth with others at church. Its an effort, for sure.

I just think we keep calling for change and try to dodge the beatings that are unjustly served. Easier said then done.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Sheldon
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Re: Correlation strikes again

Post by Sheldon » 09 Aug 2016, 13:35

A good summation of the changes to the talk vs the Ensign can be found here at Wheat&Tares

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