Boise Rescue

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Roy » 18 Jun 2015, 12:24

NonTraditionalMom wrote:Ugh. Why does it feel like Public Relations is running this? If there were problems in Boise, just freaking say that there were problems in Boise.
But the church denies last weekend’s meeting came in response to any of that. Eric Hawkins, church spokesman, told 2News in a statement, "Elder Oaks was not scheduled for an assignment that weekend so decided to use his free time to visit an area with a concentration of members, knowing that some members have questions from time to time that trouble them."
That sounds crazy! That Elder Oaks would go to Boise and have this unusual meeting, dragging a church historian with him, independant of any authorization or assignment from the rest of the Q15 - because he was bored?!?!? Is Elder Oaks some kind of maverick that does this sort of thing on a personal whim? Make sure to never leave him with a free weekend...

On the other hand, what I think is really happening is that the church is trying to deny whatever "Snuffer Movement" there may be the legitimacy of having received a major response from an apostle and the general church leadership.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mom3
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by mom3 » 18 Jun 2015, 13:07

Roy wrote,
That Elder Oaks would go to Boise and have this unusual meeting, dragging a church historian with him,
Roy really? - I totally see Dallin just getting a hair brained idea, hopping on the elevator, dropping in to Turley's office and saying "Road trip?"

Turley says, "Well I was going to mow the lawn on Saturday, but hey why not, where should we go - Phoenix or Boise?"

Oaks - "Boise, I love Boise - and Meridian and Eagle. You know, I know your a historian and you probably know this, but Brigham Young wanted Deseret to include Boise."

Turley, "No way. Oh we should run up there, pop in, make some general remarks about lovin' those Idahoans, and scoot before FHE on Monday?"

Oaks - "Great, I'll call Kristine, get her to make us some sandwiches, you grab the Prius, the keys are on the garage hook and let's do it."

I think that is really how it went. I mean those guys have nothing to all day, why not. Next week Minot, North Dakota. Turley's wife is making the sandwiches.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
Posts: 6187
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Roy » 18 Jun 2015, 14:03

:lol: :clap: :lol: :clap: :mrgreen:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Jun 2015, 20:14

DA, as bluntly as I can say this, you can have your suppositions; I will keep my lengthy research. Our activity rates are higher now, as an aggregate percentage, then they were in the past, generally speaking.

I truly believe this was about addressing two things:

1) People like Denver Snuffer, about whom I will not give my full opinion here. I just will say there aren't many members I distrust more or whose ideas I dislike more, for more than one reason.

2) The unrealistic expectations of SO many members who have built a cult of worship around the top leadership, aided and abetted by some of the former top leadership. I think it is a completely unrealistic expectation to believe a real prophet and/or apostle has to have been visited (physically) by Jesus, when we simply don't have that recorded anywhere in our scriptural canon about prophets throughout history. It also is incredibly damaging, imo, to claim that anyone who has enough faith can be visited by Jesus - which is one of Snuffer's core teachings. He is preying on the most unrealistically devout, imo, and the top leadership knows his stance is unrealistic.

I am glad that last point is being addressed, even if not directly in General Conference yet. It is damaging in a very real way, and it has hurt a few people deeply whom I know and love.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

university
Posts: 150
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 17:19

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by university » 18 Jun 2015, 21:31

It is interesting for me to hear about this Denver Snuffer situation go down from the outside. I don't know much about him---the only information I have about this I get from the cyberworld, and even then, it's limited. It is intriguing how he can have such an impact on the lives of some and then have no influence at all in other circles. In my world, and in the world of other Mormons I interact with, he's non-existent.

I don't want to hijack the thread and we can move on, but is he claiming he had a visitation from Jesus? Sounds like it's a splinter group in the making.

I don't understand what I guess this forum calls the "conservative" wing of church rebellion. It is quite peculiar to me. From my perspective, it feels like the '"conservative" wing applies rigorous scrutiny to current leadership, but if the same level of scrutiny was applied to the early leaders of the Church, and even the Book of Mormon itself, the foundation of church origins wouldn't stand up to it, either.

But I guess that's how we all are. We sort what we analyze and critique based off our paradigms and convictions.

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hawkgrrrl
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 16:27

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by hawkgrrrl » 18 Jun 2015, 21:47

The Streisand effect is the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.

Paulista
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Joined: 08 Mar 2015, 18:46

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Paulista » 18 Jun 2015, 21:52

Ray DeGraw wrote: It also is incredibly damaging, imo, to claim that anyone who has enough faith can be visited by Jesus -.
Brother of Jared?

Paulista
Posts: 24
Joined: 08 Mar 2015, 18:46

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Paulista » 18 Jun 2015, 21:54

Holy Cow wrote: Where do you guys hear about all this stuff?
Reddit.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Jun 2015, 22:04

Yes, the brother of Jared story is used by some to say it can be that way for everyone. I think that is nonsense. I believe it is just as bad an over-application as saying everyone can get an answer to prayer through a burning in the bosom because that's how Oliver got his.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Ann
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Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 02:17

Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Ann » 18 Jun 2015, 23:03

Ray DeGraw wrote:The unrealistic expectations of SO many members who have built a cult of worship around the top leadership, aided and abetted by some of the former top leadership. I think it is a completely unrealistic expectation to believe a real prophet and/or apostle has to have been visited (physically) by Jesus, when we simply don't have that recorded anywhere in our scriptural canon about prophets throughout history.
I think the aiding and abetting still goes on to an unhealthy degree. There is much more that could be done to dismantle the unrealistic expectations.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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