Boise Rescue

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Dax
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Dax » 16 Jun 2015, 16:32

JAC....I'm very curious as to what was told to the Laurels and Priests. Anyway you could find out? Seems very strange that that group would be singled out. Were they told to stop looking at church history? Also did Oaks say why in 10 years lds would be persecuted for their beliefs? All so so strange!!

JAC
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by JAC » 16 Jun 2015, 16:42

Our baby sitter went to the meeting. I'll ask her next time I see her.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by hawkgrrrl » 16 Jun 2015, 16:43

JAC:
"When I told him about my faith crisis and how I know many people leaving the church he told me "oh, it's epidemic!". Those were his words exactly. By the tone he used I could tell it was something that greatly concerned him."
Hmm. I question whether it really is epidemic, or at least to qualify what that word might mean, I would like to caveat: 1) all churches are experiencing attrition in like numbers, so it's not uniquely a Mormon history or Mormon internet problem really - and it happens (according to the studies) that every successful generation is less and less inclined to attend church regularly - like Europe the US is becoming more secular, and yet we are still very religious as a nation compared to northern Europe at least, and 2) I wonder how much of this is the issue of public knowledge. When 24 hours news came out, suddenly everyone felt less safe because we knew every story of a missing child (at least the white ones) and we had real time updates of all tragedies. Parents suddenly didn't want kids to play outdoors, but it's no less safe than it was before - we just didn't know it was unsafe! Anyway, that's why I'm a bit skeptical about it being an epidemic. But it may be one. Just cautious in use of hyperbole about some grand mass exodus.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Curt Sunshine » 16 Jun 2015, 16:51

I have done research on activity and growth rates throughout our history, and theoverall activity rate is at or near an all-time high. There have been times in the past when it was amazingly low.

The overall church membership world-wide is growing, while most denominations are losing members when measured the same way. The growth rate, as a percentage, still is near the top of the Christian world.

I don't think natural disasters are increasing as much as Second Coming alarmists believe. We just hear about every, single one and see pictures of the devastation.

Certainly, all is not well in Zion - but things are nowhere near as bad as many assume. Much of their view is confirmation bias, just as much as the inability to see issues is for the more traditional, conservative members.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

JAC
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by JAC » 16 Jun 2015, 17:13

I agree that this is not a Mormon only problem. I consider myself a TBM so I certainly don't relish the idea that people are leaving. The word "epidemic" was not mine, but that of my stake president. Take it for what is worth.

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Roy
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Roy » 16 Jun 2015, 17:22

JAC wrote:The word "epidemic" was not mine, but that of my stake president. Take it for what is worth.
Perhaps what he meant was that people are having faith concerns over history like never before. People have always left the church for a variety of reasons but I remember some church leader being surprised that our "best and brightest" (meaning presumably people that are well established in the church) were leaving.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by Heber13 » 16 Jun 2015, 17:56

Seems like the hyperbole is the prediction that in 10 years we won't be able to talk about religion outside our homes....that is harder for me to believe than the use of the word "epidemic" for young people leaving the church.

Religion in this country is not going anywhere.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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mom3
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by mom3 » 16 Jun 2015, 18:39

the prediction that in 10 years we won't be able to talk about religion outside our homes
Or perhaps we will have dug our own hole.

Aren't we supposed to look at the beam in our own eye?

Good news is, I barely talk about my religion outside my home. Guess I'm ahead of the curve. ;)
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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LookingHard
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by LookingHard » 16 Jun 2015, 19:17

Heber13 wrote:Seems like the hyperbole is the prediction that in 10 years we won't be able to talk about religion outside our homes....that is harder for me to believe than the use of the word "epidemic" for young people leaving the church.

Religion in this country is not going anywhere.
I live in the southern-ish US and knocking door to door in the nice suburban neighborhood is a near waste of time. But I have many many people I can talk about my religion with - even several really staunch evangelicals! Church buildings just keep popping up all over my neighborhood and two mega churches are coming and 2 others are within a 10 minute drive.

I have to agree with this post http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/10/15/t ... -is-empty/ I don't see the world getting worse and worse. It rings to me of fear-mongering and "gather the wagons as this is urgent!"

GBSmith
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Re: Boise Rescue

Post by GBSmith » 16 Jun 2015, 21:01

I listened to the podcast and then checked out the link to the man and his wife that were excommunicated and I don't think we have anything to worry about. The typical StayLDS type faith crisis, as I experienced, has nothing to do with what DHO was preaching about. It sounds like there's a Denver Snuffer problem there and the brethren are trying to nip it in the bud. Doubt in the sense of polygamy, JS and accounts of the first vision, etc. doesn't seem to be the issue but it's if TSM is really a prophet why doesn't he prophesy something. There's a big difference between wondering if it's really true and "God revealed to me it isn't and I'm going to do something about it". In summary I'd say to DBMormon that you've nothing to concern yourself with.
Last edited by GBSmith on 16 Jun 2015, 21:33, edited 1 time in total.

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