Teaching with authenticity

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by hawkgrrrl » 04 Jun 2015, 14:20

So, here's the question I'd like to ask about the 14 Fs. Did E. Benson write them assuming one day he'd be in the big chair (and therefore benefit from his generous interpretation of prophetic infallibility) or did he do it to suck up to the powers that be (since there's a bit of a yes man culture at play)? Inquiring minds want to know. I kind of think it's the latter, but it could just be because that's how they are trotted out by all subsequent speakers.

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nibbler
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by nibbler » 04 Jun 2015, 14:57

I had that same question myself. I discounted the brownie points option because by then he was already an apostle and locked into the succession paradigm. I guess we'll never know whether this was a preconceived power play. ;)
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Jun 2015, 15:12

If we believe Edward Kimball, SWK was not in full agreement with the 14Fs. Therefore, it falls more to first scenario.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by Curt Sunshine » 04 Jun 2015, 19:44

I think he wrote them because he was ultra-conservative and believed them.

He was wrong, imo, about quite a few things, so why not 14 specific things? :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by hawkgrrrl » 05 Jun 2015, 10:47

They are just so dumb. I don't know how anyone can repeat them with a straight face. Srsly.

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LookingHard
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by LookingHard » 05 Jun 2015, 11:09

DarkJedi wrote:If we believe Edward Kimball, SWK was not in full agreement with the 14Fs. Therefore, it falls more to first scenario.
But it could be that ETB was trying to say, "bow to the big boss" and getting on his good side, but it didn't work. I have the Edward Kimball saying he dad was upset by this and felt it was not proper doctrine.

NonTraditionalMom
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by NonTraditionalMom » 05 Jun 2015, 11:23

I think it's a mix of both. There are some quotes in the lesson that definitely point to currying favor, in my opinion. There is one where ETB compliments SWK on basically giving the best talk ever given which, in my mind, sounds more like sucking up than acknowledging that God is speaking. I also get a definite feeling of arrogance from ETB, like supposedly giving a half-hearted apology for the 14 F's after being reprimanded by SWK. But I also agree with Ray-- I think he truly believed what he was teaching. It reminds me a little bit of when I took over a small team at work, and my boss spoke to me at length about making sure my team knew that I was in charge and that the buck stopped with me.

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