Teaching with authenticity

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by hawkgrrrl » 03 Jun 2015, 19:53

You could always refer to this: http://www.wheatandtares.org/215/hawkgr ... damentals/ And then point out how blasphemous it is. :) Of course, it does point out how silly some of the 14Fs are.

amateurparent
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by amateurparent » 03 Jun 2015, 20:28

Hawkgrrrl wrote:
juxtapose quotes from evil dictators that sound a whole lot like the 14F and then ask who said it (that's sort of a bad idea maybe, but it amuses me). It's hard not to see the similarities between the standard for following leaders laid out in the 14F and things Kim John Il has said.
That would be TOTALLY awesome.
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by SilentDawning » 03 Jun 2015, 20:30

hawkgrrrl wrote:You could always refer to this: http://www.wheatandtares.org/215/hawkgr ... damentals/ And then point out how blasphemous it is. :) Of course, it does point out how silly some of the 14Fs are.
I LOVE IT!!!! You'd probably have to throw your TR in with the deal though, as well as your calling -- it would be considered sacrilege!
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nibbler
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by nibbler » 04 Jun 2015, 04:32

I originally deleted my post, I think I should re-add some elements - testify and warn the people and all that.

If any of you have the opportunity to teach the lesson I'd plead with you to do your best to give the lesson. It may prevent the type of lesson I ended up sitting in on.

Background: My ward is strange. We've lagged one lesson behind the rest of the world in the ETB manual just about all year. I'm not sure how that happened. This past Sunday we didn't have a combined meeting for 5th Sunday, it was a regular old divide and conquer the sexes (tongue firmly in cheek). EQ taught lesson 11 from the ETB manual, so now we've skipped a few lessons and are ahead of the world.

We started the lesson off by doing the typical thing, taking turns reading paragraph by paragraph from the beginning. The discussion didn't start until the section on The most important prophet for us is the living prophet. Points made by the instructor (my notes in parenthesis):
  • When I was a kid <prophet name> was the prophet, I considered him to be my prophet, my favorite. Today the prophet is TSM. We should exclusively listen to what he says over what older prophets have said. (Funny, seeing how the lesson is coming from a manual on teachings from ETB. We all know that as a community we are very selective about when to apply this principle.)
  • Race and the priesthood falls into this category. We have to listen to the current prophets on this point. (I do like this point on many levels. I won't get into it here though.)
  • What revelations has TSM had? (My bad boy side thought, well this ought to be good ;). Silence. Granted it wasn't a I can't think of anything silence, it was one of those no one wants to volunteer a comment silences.) The teacher broke the silence with mentioning lowering the age to serve a mission and also mentioned what would come to take over the discussion, the church's position against same sex marriage.
  • TSM probably never imagined that he'd have to fight the same sex marriage battle, that the world would be such a wicked place, but that's why we have to listen to the modern prophet, <favorite prophet when I was a kid> never thought that same sex marriage would become as big a deal as it has become so it's up to the modern guy to be the standard bearer. (A prophet didn't see that coming? ;) In the prophet's defense he actually was extremely opinionated about that subject).
  • The Family: A Proclamation to the World was prophetic, it drew a line in the sand before same sex attraction was even an issue. ( :crazy: )
  • The rest of the lesson, probably half of the lesson, was spent talking about same sex marriage and how no member should support it. A few other points of the political right were briefly brought up, not made a focus but mentioned, then we ran out of time.
I had some comments at the ready for the lesson (despite the sneak attack nature of the timing of the lesson ;)) but I wasn't prepared for the lesson to take an anti same sex marriage nosedive. This is why I say teach the lesson if you can.

As a class participant I'd select one quote or one message that I wanted to get across, the thing that was the most important to me. You don't want to be the person that's raising their hand every 5 minutes, especially when it's to point out some flaw or other in the lesson's reasoning. People will tune you out. Mine was the quote from BY recently shared by D. Todd Christofferson in his talk Free Forever, to Act for Themselves in the October 2014 GC.
Brigham Young wrote:I do not wish any Latter Day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ,—the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied. I wish them to know for themselves and understand for themselves.
I was going to read this if I felt like the discussion ventured too far into blind obedience territory. That never came up so I didn't share the quote. The one thing I was worried about didn't come to fruition, so I sat there in (stunned) silence.
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
— Hippocrates

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nibbler
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by nibbler » 04 Jun 2015, 04:36

DarkJedi wrote:I think it is worth noting somewhere that when Pres. Benson said this stuff (14Fs) he was not Pres. Benson, he was Elder Benson. At that time the idea that all of the Q15 were prophets was somewhat less emphasized (at least where I live).
Probably a good thing too, giving the 14 fundamentals address as a prophet is a good way to get yourself labeled a megalomaniac.
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
— Hippocrates

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DarkJedi
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Jun 2015, 05:48

nibbler wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:I think it is worth noting somewhere that when Pres. Benson said this stuff (14Fs) he was not Pres. Benson, he was Elder Benson. At that time the idea that all of the Q15 were prophets was somewhat less emphasized (at least where I live).
Probably a good thing too, giving the 14 fundamentals address as a prophet is a good way to get yourself labeled a megalomaniac.
:lol: True! For some, that title might fit, however. Actually both JS and BY come to mind immediately. I'm not saying they were, but the case could be made.

It could also be pointed out that the 14Fs were not delivered in a GC talk (it was a talk at BYU) and that they were not repeated (although some elements have fallen into popular LDS culture).

We had a interesting leadership meeting a few days ago where this article by Elder Cook was referenced: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/03/look ... k?lang=eng. I had read it before, but I couldn't find it with a search (it's there, perhaps I wasn't using the right words) and ended up emailing the guy to ask for the reference. At any rate, I thought about this upcoming lesson as the guy spoke about losing focus on core gospel principles (he actually referred to these principles as the iron rod, not the scriptures or BoM). Besides gaining a new respect for the guy and his understanding I was once again reminded about how Pharisaical we can become and how easy it is. I think the Pharisees would have liked the 14Fs.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by hawkgrrrl » 04 Jun 2015, 09:17

The discussion didn't start until the section on The most important prophet for us is the living prophet. Points made by the instructor (my notes in parenthesis):
When I was a kid <prophet name> was the prophet, I considered him to be my prophet, my favorite. Today the prophet is TSM. We should exclusively listen to what he says over what older prophets have said. (Funny, seeing how the lesson is coming from a manual on teachings from ETB. We all know that as a community we are very selective about when to apply this principle.)
Well then, lesson over. Obviously this manual can be tossed out since he's dead. Next!

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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by Roy » 04 Jun 2015, 09:29

nibbler wrote:What revelations has TSM had? (My bad boy side thought, well this ought to be good . Silence. Granted it wasn't a I can't think of anything silence, it was one of those no one wants to volunteer a comment silences.) The teacher broke the silence with mentioning lowering the age to serve a mission and also mentioned what would come to take over the discussion, the church's position against same sex marriage.
What about the revelation to not ask God about ordaining women? Or the revelation for the I'm a Mormon and Meet the Mormons campaigns? What about the revelation to produce the essays on lds.org? Or the revelation that sexual orientation is not a choice and that Gay individuals generally should not marry members of the opposite gender as this and 100's of other reparative techniques are ineffective at best and harmful at worst? Or the revelations on who to call to fill vacancies in the quorum? Revelations abound!
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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DarkJedi
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Jun 2015, 10:35

hawkgrrrl wrote:
The discussion didn't start until the section on The most important prophet for us is the living prophet. Points made by the instructor (my notes in parenthesis):
When I was a kid <prophet name> was the prophet, I considered him to be my prophet, my favorite. Today the prophet is TSM. We should exclusively listen to what he says over what older prophets have said. (Funny, seeing how the lesson is coming from a manual on teachings from ETB. We all know that as a community we are very selective about when to apply this principle.)
Well then, lesson over. Obviously this manual can be tossed out since he's dead. Next!
:thumbup: Sounds perfectly reasonable and doctrinal to me!

I'd love to do Robin Williams's character in Dead Poets Society and tell everyone to rip those pages out!
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

startpoor
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Re: Teaching with authenticity

Post by startpoor » 04 Jun 2015, 12:40

DarkJedi wrote:
I'd love to do Robin Williams's character in Dead Poets Society and tell everyone to rip those pages out!
And that is a lesson that cannot be improved on :)


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