What Mormonism boils down to

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Heber13
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by Heber13 » 20 May 2015, 09:27

DarkJedi wrote:I don't dislike ETB, either - saying he is my least favorite still denotes he's a favorite (depending on your point of view, of course )
:clap: Well done, sir! I'll have to remember that when my son says "I don't want any beans. They're my least favorite thing of all!" ...I can reply..."So...they are your favorite then!" :smile: (Sounds like a Dumb and Dumber quote..."What was all that one in a million talk??" haha).
DarkJedi wrote:Pres Uchtdorf: I also remember one interesting side effect of President Benson’s influential talk. For a while it almost became taboo among Church members to say that they were “proud” of their children or their country or that they took “pride” in their work. The very word pride seemed to become an outcast in our vocabulary.
I remember those debates in class too...but it seemed the most reasonable people knew there were times being proud of our accomplishments was not sin. Only the truly literal and staunch narrow minded people would take the extreme position that all pride is evil because the prophet said so. And I remember that being part of the debates in class. I think that was President Uchtdorf's point...we should use wisdom in our obedience to prophet teachings. Because I don't think that was the point ETB was making...all pride is sin. He was saying all sin comes from unrighteous pride. And I think at the time, the church needed to hear that, as we too often think we are so special in the church.
Ray DeGraw wrote:If I were to say what I believe Mormonism boils down to, I would say, "I am a child of God." (and all of the implications of taking that statement literally)
This is a good summation of what Mormonism boils down to for me. Thanks Ray. I didn't think I could find something...and was leaning towards "God loves us"...but that wasn't quite hitting mormonism to me. But being taught we're children of God really is the crux of it all, and all the teachings and doctrines flow out of that statement. The fact Joseph Smith was talked to, that God has a body, that the Book of Mormon is about the Atonement...all this comes back to that simple lesson. All that God does is because we are His children. (See Moses 1).
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by DarkJedi » 20 May 2015, 09:44

Heber13 wrote:
Ray DeGraw wrote:If I were to say what I believe Mormonism boils down to, I would say, "I am a child of God." (and all of the implications of taking that statement literally)
This is a good summation of what Mormonism boils down to for me. Thanks Ray. I didn't think I could find something...and was leaning towards "God loves us"...but that wasn't quite hitting mormonism to me. But being taught we're children of God really is the crux of it all, and all the teachings and doctrines flow out of that statement. The fact Joseph Smith was talked to, that God has a body, that the Book of Mormon is about the Atonement...all this comes back to that simple lesson. All that God does is because we are His children. (See Moses 1).
I think you guys are nailing it here. I think it really does boil down to this:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I think when our Apostles talk about the gospel being so simple a child can understand it, they're referring to this.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by Roy » 20 May 2015, 10:15

DevilsAdvocate wrote:As far as I can tell Mormonism mostly boils down to, "Follow the prophet(s)."
I agree with DA on this one. I look at the way Mormonism is applied in our modern church and it seems to me to be a system of salvation. As in if you follow the system you will be saved/exalted. At the top of the system is a divine head. This is a person or body of persons that receive communication and authority from God. Otherwise the system would be just another man made institution without any saving power.

You can know with all your heart that you are literally a child of God and that he loves you but that won't do you much good unless that knowledge inpires you to work the system. (or so the understanding goes...)

"Follow the Prophet" with the understanding that the Prophet is divinely authorized of God is a pretty good summary of Mormonism for me. The rest is auxillory.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Ann
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by Ann » 20 May 2015, 10:34

DevilsAdvocate wrote: Basically because Church leaders said so, that's why.
I like to think that we're growing up as a church and allowing for more variations of belief and practice. Maybe conversations like this are a vital part - along with boots on the Sunday ground - of the restoration. Maybe the internet is going to help us finally boil Mormonism down to its true essentials.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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mom3
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by mom3 » 20 May 2015, 13:50

Ann wrote
I like to think that we're growing up as a church and allowing for more variations of belief and practice.
I agree.

I also think in a weird way our religion is having to speed up it's teen year procedures. Other religions took hundreds of years to move to their current system. I also think Mormonism boils down to different strokes for different folks. If you really pressed people you would get different answers - eternal families, becoming Gods, sealing ordinances, saving the dead, being Christlike, spreading the gospel. Sometimes they overlap or we pick 2 or 3 without even considering it.

In my lifetime alone (and I can remember David O McKay's death - DJ I win.) we have swung from, being another Christian religion (McKay), Geneology and Family History (Joseph Fielding Smith), Food Storage (Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee), Lamanite Children, Journal Keeping, Long Life Lists (Spencer W. Kimball), Pride and BoM (Benson), Temple Recommends for everyone (Howard W. Hunter), History, Temples, PR (Gordon B. Hinckley), Ear wiggling (Thomas S. Monson).

Mormonism is like the tide, it comes and goes. We've left the city of Zion behind - That was our forefather's dream.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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LookingHard
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by LookingHard » 20 May 2015, 14:30

mom3 wrote:Ear wiggling (Thomas S. Monson).
Hey - I can wiggle my ears (even 1 at a time). I guess this is one way I can follow the prophet! :smile:

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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by nibbler » 20 May 2015, 15:57

:lol:

I'd give Monson story telling in addition to ear wiggling.

What's this about Hunter's temple recommends for everyone? (I've got this mental image of Oprah now). I only had a few months of ETB and a few months of HWH and that was when I was still cutting my teeth.
Cure sometimes, treat often, comfort always.
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mom3
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by mom3 » 20 May 2015, 16:33

Howard W. Hunter only served 6 months as President/Prophet. His health was very ailing, but in the minimal addresses he did give, he encouraged members to keep or get a recommend, even if you didn't have a temple nearby. It was the only accomplishment I could pin on him, except hanging in there those few months.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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DarkJedi
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by DarkJedi » 21 May 2015, 03:47

One of the things I liked about Pres. Hunter was that he unabashedly admitted not serving a mission, no war/military excuses and so forth - he simply chose not to serve (and played with his band instead).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Heber13
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Re: What Mormonism boils down to

Post by Heber13 » 21 May 2015, 09:05

mom3 wrote:Howard W. Hunter only served 6 months as President/Prophet. His health was very ailing, but in the minimal addresses he did give, he encouraged members to keep or get a recommend, even if you didn't have a temple nearby. It was the only accomplishment I could pin on him, except hanging in there those few months.
I remember him giving some emphasis on the Atonement, and I remember liking that focus.

As each prophet seems to have something they're known for or emphasize, they don't really define all of what mormonism boils down to. Just some messages at the time that needs to be emphasized to keep us on track with "the main message".

As a whole...they seem to all point back to "I am a child of God", "There is a plan of happiness", "this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." That is what mormonism boils down to for me.

I think that is why we get criticized by some christians, because we don't just say Christ is the main message...we kind of take it one step further to ask "Why is Christ the central figure? Because of His role in God's Plan."
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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