Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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I don’t know what the end game will be, but it shouldn’t be a whole class of people that can’t hold hands on campus. People that are “othered,” fretted and prayed over as though there is something wrong with them.
Here's another way of stating the problem in the Church. Which of these two people (if either) should be subject to censure:
1) a gay kid at BYU who tells others that he's gay, but also faithful
2) a straight kid at BYU who tells all his roommates that if he ever met someone gay, he'd beat the hell out of him because gay people are perverts and have no right to live

We all know what the reality is on the ground. Even if the Church says everyone should be treated with love, we all know for a fact that kid #2 will never have any consequences for his threatening behavior. Kid #1 will be told that he's wrong for self-identifying as gay which is "divisive." Which one is really being divisive?
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DarkJedi
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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I don't believe it has been pointed out yet that Holland's talk came in the heals of the announcement of the Office of Belonging at BYU.
https://news.byu.edu/announcements/byu- ... -belonging
From the announcement:
THE STATEMENT ON BELONGING
We are united by our common primary identity as children of God (Acts 17:29; Psalm 82:6) and our commitment to the truths of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ (BYU Mission Statement). We strive to create a community of belonging composed of students, faculty, and staff whose hearts are knit together in love (Mosiah 18:21) where:
All relationships reflect devout love of God and a loving, genuine concern for the welfare of our neighbor (BYU Mission Statement);
We value and embrace the variety of individual characteristics, life experiences and circumstances, perspectives, talents, and gifts of each member of the community and the richness and strength they bring to our community (1 Corinthians 12:12–27);
Our interactions create and support an environment of belonging (Ephesians 2:19); and
The full realization of each student’s divine potential is our central focus (BYU Mission Statement).
Worthen emphasized that the Office of Belonging will not only be core to BYU’s efforts to root out racism, but also to combat “prejudice of any kind, including that based on race, ethnicity, nationality, tribe, gender, age, disability, socioeconomic status, religious belief and sexual orientation.”
(emphasis added)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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DarkJedi: I don't know if you saw this, but within 72 hours, a petition was started up to eliminate the Office of Belonging. Yep, that's right, the Karens are in charge now, and even though they got to speak to the manager, it wasn't enough.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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No, Hawk, I didn't but I did see the video of the man erasing the rainbow colored chalk drawing on campus and saying faggots go to hell. I also saw BYU's response:
“We unequivocally condemn behavior and language that is disrespectful and hurtful. There is no place for hateful speech, or prejudice of any kind, on our campus or in our community. The Honor Code explicitly states that each member of the BYU community has the obligation to respect others. The incident seen in a video circulation on social media is now under review. This behavior runs counter to the directives shared by President Worthen in his University Conference address Monday. We are striving to create a community of belonging composed of students, faculty and staff whose hearts are knit together in love. Every student and individual on our campus deserves to feel that belonging.”?
I agree, this is what Worthen said. I'm not sure it's not what Holland said.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

Post by hawkgrrrl »

I actually think Worthen's been pretty great overall, but I have no illusions that the hate speech kid will have any consequences applied to him. A great president < the board of trustees.

Also, minor inconvenience to conservatives > actual death threats and hate speech to liberals.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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The graduate who "commandeered" the podium, Matt Easton, responds to Elder Holland:
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comment ... -holland/
Our variety of life experiences is what makes BYU so wonderful. Let me be clear — diversity is not the same as divisiveness. I imagine that is what the administrators who pre-approved my words understood as well.
While some might fear a future where more valedictorians share things like their sexual identity in their speeches, I think we should instead fear a future in which they don’t.
Celebrating our own differences not only fosters belonging but also enables us to more clearly see our similarities. If unity is what we are after, I believe it will come from offering all perspectives a seat at the table. Every voice is needed for the gospel choir.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
Roy
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

Post by Roy »

Sometimes it is helpful to realize that the same types of issues that our frustrate our church (and church owned universities) also frustrate other churches (and their church owned universities).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ca ... tp&pc=U531

The article above tells us that "85 percent of Catholic young adults stop practicing their faith within ten years of their confirmation, with many of them lapsing during college." It calls for church owned schools to be safe places for parents to send their kids knowing that they will be surrounded by religious instruction and religiously minded peers.
To insure against this, some parents and students invest in faith-based education, often at greater cost than other choices. That’s why it is essential that colleges that use their “Catholicism” as a recruiting tool to attract graduating high-school seniors and their families live out their faith and accept the challenges of not only educating students for their future career paths, but also of instructing them in the beliefs the Church holds, preserves, and spreads.
This very much reminds me of the letter that was cited in Elder Hollands address.
I would hope that BYU professors would be bridging those gaps between faith and intellect and would be sending out students that are ready to do the same in loving, intelligent and articulate ways.
The article then spends a good amount of space arguing for why these Catholic universities should refuse to cover (through their insurance contracts) artificial forms of birth control.

As much as I sympathize with fearing that my children will not continue the traditions that they were raised in. This stuff about birth control seems like a needlessly silly "sky is falling" moment to me. Of course, perhaps my perspective is because our church has moved on from that particular battle ground. The most current advice from LDS church leaders is that family size and child spacing is a matter that is between each married couple and God (no intermediate necessary). How much time, tears, and prayer is our current leadership expending on the birth control question?

I wonder if some others look at our current struggle with LGBTQ+ individuals and feel like it is similarly silly?
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

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DarkJedi wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 17:20 No, Hawk, I didn't but I did see the video of the man erasing the rainbow colored chalk drawing on campus and saying faggots go to hell. I also saw BYU's response:
“We unequivocally condemn behavior and language that is disrespectful and hurtful. There is no place for hateful speech, or prejudice of any kind, on our campus or in our community. The Honor Code explicitly states that each member of the BYU community has the obligation to respect others. The incident seen in a video circulation on social media is now under review. This behavior runs counter to the directives shared by President Worthen in his University Conference address Monday. We are striving to create a community of belonging composed of students, faculty and staff whose hearts are knit together in love. Every student and individual on our campus deserves to feel that belonging.”?
I agree, this is what Worthen said. I'm not sure it's not what Holland said.
Many students went to the location where the video was filmed and wrote lots of supportive statements of the LGBT+ community in chalk on the sidewalks to more than replace what had been erased. All the messages were washed away come the next morning.

Perhaps the university has no issue with scrubbing messages in support of the LGBT+ community away, perhaps their only issue was the language the young man used or perhaps the only issue was the attention the video received.
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Roy
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

Post by Roy »

War metaphors give a community a shared foe, a common cause. It feels good to think that the enemy is those bad people over there, while we're in a place of righteousness over here. By focusing our eye outwards, the war metaphor helps us avoid the difficult work of looking within.
Valerie Hobbs
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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DarkJedi
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Re: Jeffrey Holland's recent address to faculty and staff at BYU

Post by DarkJedi »

nibbler wrote: 29 Aug 2021, 14:25 Perhaps the university has no issue with scrubbing messages in support of the LGBT+ community away, perhaps their only issue was the language the young man used or perhaps the only issue was the attention the video received.
Emphasis added. I do believe the last part of this statement has some merit. The talk was given to faculty and staff at BYU, not a general audience. Perhaps they were surprised the contents became so widely known, especially in a very short period of time. This conference is an annual event, but I've never heard anything about what was said or done there before. Likewise, I'm not sure Holland was aware enough of life outside the bubble to realize not everyone was going to be in board, or maybe there's more pushback than expected. And, more to the point, the video is a bit embarrassing for a university that just created a cabinet post for helping marginalized students feel more welcome but could be seen as directly linked to Holland's words.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction
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