New struggle with tithing

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Heber13
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by Heber13 » 23 Dec 2021, 08:54

I have thought about this topic a lot.

The church has been constant with what it asks. The rules are known to me.

So it just becomes my personal struggle to adhere to it or not.

If something is changing, it is on my end, and how I see it or feel about it.

But the church hasn't changed what it asks of me.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Old-Timer
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by Old-Timer » 17 Jan 2022, 07:37

I have paid tithing my entire life, and I am a grandfather now. I have paid on net income, since paying on money I never get (taxes, etc.) makes absolutely no sense to me.

During the pandemic, we have helped our kids and others extensively with basic living costs. Paying tithing on net income would mean not helping others as much - or using a credit card for tithing. To me, that would be stupid - so I have paid tithing on my net income AFTER true necessary living expenses and my “donations” to those expenses for others. That means my tithing has been essentially zero for some time. Our “surplus” comes from my wife’s income, and she pays a full tithe on her net income.

We both declare, in good conscience, full tithing payment.

My conscience is clear.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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DarkJedi
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by DarkJedi » 20 Jan 2022, 07:40

Thanks for that perspective OT. I had not really considered paying on surplus as an option to alleviate some of my concern. We have likewise helped our children over the past couple years and we have a college student who we help support. We are generous with our children. This give me something more to think about.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Cadence
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by Cadence » 15 Feb 2022, 12:19

I figure I paid enough tithing for 30 years to more than cover any costs associated with my limited use of church facilities. Throw in all the volunteer time and I think I am good till I die.


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SilentDawning
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by SilentDawning » 02 Mar 2022, 01:41

I can add one comment. When I mentioned the extravagence of building temples when the money could be used for the poor, I was reminded about the New Testament story when someone wanted to donate some expensive foot oil to Jesus. Jesus accepted it. One of his apostles said "that money could be used to help the poor". Jesus replied that the world would always have the poor but that the world would not always have Jesus in their presence. Therefore, apparently, Jesus was justified in accepting the expensive foot oil given the specialness of his presence (yes, and I consider his presence indeed special if he was alive and near myself). The person "counseling" me compared Jesus being with us to having a temple.

That is the answer given, but to me, it's dismissive of the poor.

My problem with tithing is that the church hasn't been there for me when I've been need -- not financial need, but needs like releases from callings, for support from LDS Social Services, and similar kinds of non-financial needs. I find it hard to pay tithing when the church is so tight-fisted and unappreciative when strong members need non-financial help. It's a church where you can easily feel taken for granted.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by Minyan Man » 02 Mar 2022, 11:02

I have mentioned this in other postings: There was a time, after I joined the church, where I did my best to follow all the rules & regulations
of the church (not just some). In addition, I said yes to every calling that came along. In return, I thought I would have special spiritual access. Not in the sense that God would talk to me directly but I would have "intuitive" answers to prayer in time of spiritual challenges. I assumed it would come from "the gift of the HG". A special feeling of comfort or counsel from church leadership or General Conference (Bishop). Maybe there would be a scripture that would come to me for comfort or guidance. So, when my major "spiritual challenge" came along, I waited for an answer or inspiration,
or counsel, or comfort. When it didn't happen, I got angry & stopped all activity at church. In return, the church stopped most activity with us.
Like Home Teachers, etc. When someone would come by or we saw someone at the mall, I was always friendly not hostile.

I took a long time before we came back to church. When I did, everything I used to believe in has changed. I've tried to develop a belief that
my spiritual journey is "progress not perfection" & Jesus Christ is the center of my faith & everything else is second (or third).

I don't believe that my final judgement will not be similar to an IRS audit. (Full tithe payer.)
I do believe it will be more about how I treat other people.

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: New struggle with tithing

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 04 Apr 2022, 11:17

Old-Timer wrote:
17 Jan 2022, 07:37
I have paid tithing my entire life, and I am a grandfather now. I have paid on net income, since paying on money I never get (taxes, etc.) makes absolutely no sense to me.

During the pandemic, we have helped our kids and others extensively with basic living costs. Paying tithing on net income would mean not helping others as much - or using a credit card for tithing. To me, that would be stupid - so I have paid tithing on my net income AFTER true necessary living expenses and my “donations” to those expenses for others. That means my tithing has been essentially zero for some time. Our “surplus” comes from my wife’s income, and she pays a full tithe on her net income.

We both declare, in good conscience, full tithing payment.

My conscience is clear.
I agree. Early on in my church experience I was told do you want gross blessings or net blessings? I paid on gross for a while, then started paying more on net. Then I gave to some other charitable options and subtracted that from my tithing.

I think the individual determines what their 10% is and what an increase is.

My conscience is clear as well.
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We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

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