Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by Curt Sunshine » 23 Nov 2020, 17:00

I really like the idea of telling the Bishop (or clerk or secretary):
"I have been a full tithe payer all my life, but I really dislike tithing settlement meetings. I think they are a complete waste of time in my situation. You can check the full-tithe payer box. I will tell you if that ever changes."
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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SamBee
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by SamBee » 24 Nov 2020, 14:13

Curt Sunshine wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 17:00
I really like the idea of telling the Bishop (or clerk or secretary):
"I have been a full tithe payer all my life, but I really dislike tithing settlement meetings. I think they are a complete waste of time in my situation. You can check the full-tithe payer box. I will tell you if that ever changes."
I'm not sure that would go down well here.

But are tithing settlements really necessary for temple recommends? Not with the two year ones, IMHO.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Roy
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by Roy » 24 Nov 2020, 15:03

SamBee wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 14:13
But are tithing settlements really necessary for temple recommends? Not with the two year ones, IMHO.
I was typing a response that basically said that a bishop can deny a recommend based on information outside of the TR interview. Thus if the bishop believes that you are being evasive about your tithing status (such as not going to tithing settlement), he may withhold a recommend.

However, I think I misread your statement. If you mean that the church could do away with tithing settlement and TR's and TR interviews would be unaffected then I agree with you 100%.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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DarkJedi
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by DarkJedi » 24 Nov 2020, 16:51

Roy wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 15:03
I was typing a response that basically said that a bishop can deny a recommend based on information outside of the TR interview. Thus if the bishop believes that you are being evasive about your tithing status (such as not going to tithing settlement), he may withhold a recommend.
I suppose he could withhold a TR (or ask for it back) if he was aware of and had evidence for something like adultery or perhaps not paying child support but I think he'd have to talk to you first. I'm not going to say they aren't out there because of leadership roulette but I have never known a bishop who would take/refuse a recommend because you didn't go to tithing settlement especially when you declared your status. I think you could make a good case with the SP or higher in that case. No bishop I have known has ever made the connection between tithing settlement and the TR interview, but I'm sure there are rogues out there.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SamBee
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by SamBee » 25 Nov 2020, 06:39

Roy wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 15:03
SamBee wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 14:13
But are tithing settlements really necessary for temple recommends? Not with the two year ones, IMHO.
I was typing a response that basically said that a bishop can deny a recommend based on information outside of the TR interview. Thus if the bishop believes that you are being evasive about your tithing status (such as not going to tithing settlement), he may withhold a recommend.

However, I think I misread your statement. If you mean that the church could do away with tithing settlement and TR's and TR interviews would be unaffected then I agree with you 100%.
Kind of. If you pay your tithing in year 1, then you can pass the TR interview, which takes you to year 2, and many people hold onto them regardless of an annual settlement. In theory, your TR could take you through to year 3 (i.e. year 1+ 2 years of TR) if your TR expires at the end of the year.

We have one or two people who are inactive or less active who have TRs. And this year, it's hard to tell who is active or tithe paying.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by DarkJedi » 25 Nov 2020, 07:45

SamBee wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 06:39
Roy wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 15:03
SamBee wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 14:13
But are tithing settlements really necessary for temple recommends? Not with the two year ones, IMHO.
I was typing a response that basically said that a bishop can deny a recommend based on information outside of the TR interview. Thus if the bishop believes that you are being evasive about your tithing status (such as not going to tithing settlement), he may withhold a recommend.

However, I think I misread your statement. If you mean that the church could do away with tithing settlement and TR's and TR interviews would be unaffected then I agree with you 100%.
Kind of. If you pay your tithing in year 1, then you can pass the TR interview, which takes you to year 2, and many people hold onto them regardless of an annual settlement. In theory, your TR could take you through to year 3 (i.e. year 1+ 2 years of TR) if your TR expires at the end of the year.

We have one or two people who are inactive or less active who have TRs. And this year, it's hard to tell who is active or tithe paying.
But the TR interview and tithing settlement are unrelated. Using your logic there'd need to be Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity settlements as well.

And who are any of us to judge who is and isn't active? We don't know what's happening in everybody else's life and it's none of our business most of the time.

FWIW, temple recommends were not always good for two years, that happened in the early 90s. Prior to that the interviews were annual and always done by the bishop (as opposed to a counselor).

FWIW part 2, less than 20% of members are full tithe payers. So that the stat isn't skewed, the average US ward outside the Corridor has about a 35% activity rate (meaning 65% of the people on the ward lists don't come to church). So when you look around SM, over a third of the people sitting there are not full tithe payers. But that's really nobody's business either.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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SamBee
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by SamBee » 25 Nov 2020, 11:42

DarkJedi wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 07:45
And who are any of us to judge who is and isn't active? We don't know what's happening in everybody else's life and it's none of our business most of the time.
No one knows who is or isn't active round here. The elderly are under house arrest and we have attendance limits...
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Minyan Man
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by Minyan Man » 25 Nov 2020, 12:30

I believe we are a harder judge of ourselves than the judgement that comes from others. (is "harder" a word?)
It is so easy to feel guilty or that we don't measure up to other people in our circle of friends & relatives.

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SamBee
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Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by SamBee » 25 Nov 2020, 16:50

Minyan Man wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 12:30
I believe we are a harder judge of ourselves than the judgement that comes from others. (is "harder" a word?)
It is so easy to feel guilty or that we don't measure up to other people in our circle of friends & relatives.
"Harsher" is probably a better word here, but "harder" makes sense too. 🙂
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Minyan Man
Posts: 1991
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Tithing Settlement during the pandemic

Post by Minyan Man » 25 Nov 2020, 18:11

Thank you SamBee

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