Casting My Net On The Other Side

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
User avatar
mom3
Posts: 4077
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by mom3 » 20 Dec 2013, 11:47

Yesterday a pang went through my chest as I read how more complete and right with the universe Richard Bushman feels when he is participating in Mormonism. While reading it, I remembered how it used to feel so right. Today I don't know if I have answer for it. Just doing the actions doesn't make up for the disparity of my expectations.

I don't blame anyone for it. To the best of my understanding 200 years of practice have passed, and finger pointing really achieves nothing. What I have concluded though, is it will never be what I thought it was. For better or worse that's the facts. There is so much about faith, religion, spirituality that is un-provable. Even those who have stepped through to the other side in NDE can't prove it. They can tell it, and be sincere, but we weren't there - if we choose to believe them - we choose.

So after 6 long years, or maybe even the entire length of my life, I am retiring from casting my net on the left side of the ship. I will still attend LDS services, they hold a special place in my heart. I take the sacrament for my reasons, and I attend to church to learn if I can help others - it's community service. I don't believe it gets me any gold stars. I attend because my wonderful parents gave me this faith, and it allows us common language.

But the hunting, praying, waiting for the answers, is over. Not in anger or resentment, but with eyes wide open, heart turned for healing, I go on. I am glad it taught me to pray. I love prayer. I love scriptures. I love hymns. I love the idea that generations can be bound together - and no one lost. These are the spiritual hopes of my heart. Now I leave it to God to help me found their life applications.

Early on in my seminary memorization I mixed up a scripture inadvertently - The one about not serving 2 masters, for you will love the one and hate the other. It ends with the words, "you can not serve God and Mammon". I thought it said, "you can not serve God and Man." Today that's where I am. I am letting go of man. I am off to find my God and Father in Heaven. Casting my heart/net on the other side.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16850
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by Curt Sunshine » 20 Dec 2013, 13:14

God bless you in your casting, mom3 - and thank you, so much, for being here with us.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7315
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by DarkJedi » 20 Dec 2013, 13:25

Thanks for sharing, Mom3. You have given me hope that I can at some time get to where you are.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
Forgotten_Charity
Posts: 779
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 18:33

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by Forgotten_Charity » 20 Dec 2013, 13:48

Amen and Amen. Thank you Mom3, truly!

What I wouldn't give to hear a sacrament talk like this. Real, authentic, loving, forgiving, without casting hope and faith in men-women. I have always ever wanted to do good for goodness' and people's sake, perhaps for god as well. But let thy good fruit be thy net. Or at least that's what I have come to believe. I hope both hope and good fruit and charity find you well. I love people, but life has always ever taught me not to put too much faith and trust in them, but hope, definitely. Let hope be your light. Wherever you are I hope you are filled with joy and fill others with joy. As weird as it sounds I have found all the little fences and little petty rules and guides and expectations in my life to only bring down my effects on hope and charity. I am refocusing less on those and more in hope, faith, and charity.

Faith has come to mean something to me very different than taught. But exactly what it says.
Things hoped for which are true and not seen.
I can't place my faith therefore in things which I have come to see or things which I don't see and don't hope for.
Why would I hope for certain rules or policy or doctrine that can hurt certain people if they obeyed it? I don't. But I can hope for a god that will correct all the petty laws and rules we seem to love to make on ourselves and others in every society (not just ours). I must follow the good fruit where it leads me.

That's where I'm at. I wish you well and I'm happy you can move on to serve others in what ways you can as well as peace be to you. Take care.

User avatar
Eric Merrill
Posts: 27
Joined: 12 Apr 2013, 10:20
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by Eric Merrill » 20 Dec 2013, 14:32

mom3 wrote:...it will never be what I thought it was. For better or worse that's the facts. There is so much about faith, religion, spirituality that is un-provable....if we choose to believe...we choose.

...the hunting, praying, waiting for the answers, is over. Not in anger or resentment, but with eyes wide open, heart turned for healing, I go on...I love prayer. I love scriptures. I love hymns. I love the idea that generations can be bound together - and no one lost. These are the spiritual hopes of my heart. Now I leave it to God to help me found their life applications.

...I am off to find my God and Father in Heaven. Casting my heart/net on the other side.
Thank you mom3 for sharing. I butchered your post in my quote to get to the essence of what resonates with me. I too struggled mightily while believing and waiting for God to give me that assurance, the 100% certainty I wanted. I too eventually let go and came to just accept that certainty is an illusion. Doing so was one of those breakthrough moments for me when my heart came into alignment with my reality.

I hope peace can settle on your mind as you become still more intimate with finding God through the reality of uncertainty.

:thumbup:
"Tradition is not the same as doctrine, and I will not hold myself back for fear of offending."
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination"

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 7348
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by SilentDawning » 20 Dec 2013, 16:35

Paragraph 1
But the hunting, praying, waiting for the answers, is over. Not in anger or resentment, but with eyes wide open, heart turned for healing, I go on. I am glad it taught me to pray. I love prayer. I love scriptures. I love hymns. I love the idea that generations can be bound together - and no one lost. These are the spiritual hopes of my heart. Now I leave it to God to help me found their life applications.

Paragraph 2
Early on in my seminary memorization I mixed up a scripture inadvertently - The one about not serving 2 masters, for you will love the one and hate the other. It ends with the words, "you can not serve God and Mammon". I thought it said, "you can not serve God and Man." Today that's where I am. I am letting go of man. I am off to find my God and Father in Heaven. Casting my heart/net on the other side.
I think these two paragraphs are interesting. I realized I am also in the same place as you describe in Paragraph 1. I arrived unconsciously. I now realize that much of what happens in life, just happens to us. Nothing more. I am constantly reminded about how I tried to exercise faith the way Grant Von Harrison said in "Drawing on the Powers of Heaven" -- a popular, "psych" approach to faith and achievement in the 80's. His philosophy was one of mental exertion constantly. When I tried it, It was a vacuous feeling -- like I was sucking air. The one time it worked (on my mission) was when it was coupled with strong action from committed missionaries and members alike. So, I believe that faith is good -- provided it motivates the person to do effective actions -- not INEFFECTIVE actions -- effective actions. Its power is in creating thought that mobilizes productive solutions to problems, and effort. And sometimes, it mobilizes ineffective effort -- and creates disappointment.

For paragraph 2 -- I think it's interesting - most people would interpret service to God as service in the church, and service outside the church, or for the world, as Mammon. Your comment in paragraph indicates that you have now associated the church, with man, and that God resides within (if I'm reading it correctly). Similar to my conclusion recently -- and Martin Luther's.

It seems this is a pattern -- when powerful churches don't meet expectations, individuals formerly influenced by those churches tend to do a number of things --- find other churches -- and often, reassert the direct line of revelation of God to Individual rather than through a church primarily -- even on churchy issues. I feel this is what you are saying, unless I've read it incorrectly.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7315
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Dec 2013, 07:26

SilentDawning wrote:It seems this is a pattern -- when powerful churches don't meet expectations, individuals formerly influenced by those churches tend to do a number of things --- find other churches -- and often, reassert the direct line of revelation of God to Individual rather than through a church primarily -- even on churchy issues. I feel this is what you are saying, unless I've read it incorrectly.
It is a historical pattern. A contributing factor to the end of the "dark ages" (I know that's not PC, but IMO it's the best description) was that due to the black plague when people began to realize that being a member of the church (principally Catholic at the time) was not going to prevent a large number of them from dying. The church lost a great deal of power and influence in the years and decades following the plague.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

church0333
Posts: 589
Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 17:41
Location: Springfield OR

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by church0333 » 22 Dec 2013, 09:15

Great post Mom3. I strive for the same thing but one thing you said that I found myself thinking about lately is prayer. I just don't do much of it anymore. I try to express gratitude at times but to ask for any type on intervention right now just seems pointless. It mades me sad to feel that way but like you said, for me those are the facts but for others I am glad that they believe differently. I used to tell my Dad that I would pray for him and he would say "that and and quarter will get me a cup of coffee". That's how I feel now, but I still don't drink coffee.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7315
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Dec 2013, 09:47

church0333 wrote:Great post Mom3. I strive for the same thing but one thing you said that I found myself thinking about lately is prayer. I just don't do much of it anymore. I try to express gratitude at times but to ask for any type on intervention right now just seems pointless. It makes me sad to feel that way but like you said, for me those are the facts but for others I am glad that they believe differently. I used to tell my Dad that I would pray for him and he would say "that and and quarter will get me a cup of coffee". That's how I feel now, but I still don't drink coffee.
My sentiments exactly.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
mom3
Posts: 4077
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Casting My Net On The Other Side

Post by mom3 » 22 Dec 2013, 14:58

Wow - Thank you for the wonderful supportive comments. When I wrote it, I knew it was my heart aching to release, I didn't even imagine any responses, I just needed to see myself acknowledging it's truth and hoped it would float along on it's own trajectory. I showed up just to add some personal insight and here you all were, my amazing online ward.

Here are my added thoughts. Today I attended Sacrament Meeting with my oldest daughter. She regularly attends the Young Adult ward. On Christmas, Easter, Mothers and Father's Day they cancel their regular sessions and send them back to family wards. She also had to work today because of a huge debit card hacking problem, she works in banking. This left us 9 - 10 for church. Because of the time requirement we went to an earlier ward.

It was a fantastic Christmas Program. Filled with a simple narration of the Bible's accounts of the Advent and Nativity. We sang only Christmas Carols, and had violin accompaniment. It was gorgeous. I was deeply moved. Overflowing to tears. As we sang, I felt and remembered that I want a Savior. I've wanted it all my life. I don't know if Gethsemane really created the Atonement. I don't know if one man or even a God dying on a cross can really heal all the sins of the world. I don't even know if immaculate conception is possible. Or barns, or mangers, or hay,or stars or whatever happened. But I knew that with all the wishes in me - I hope something very real - like this could be possible and happen.

While I thought, and cried, the question came to me, "What if it really didn't happen?" The question was solid, firm, sincere. I thought about it, what if? What if not? Then a huge equally as solid, firm, and sincere thought came - I can.

No I cannot die for my sins or yours. I cannot make up for the horrible misfortunes that fill this life. I can't be born in heroic circumstances; but I can make my life the fulfillment of the best of my envisioned Savior. I can learn (this one's going to be hard) to let go of pain inflicted by well intended others. I can learn, and practice human awareness. Not just for the outcast, but the included, too. Because according to Scripture - EVERYONE was included. I can do so much.

I love the hope that is deeply embedded in my heart. And if Christ is the best inspiration and model for my efforts - I rejoice, not just in his life. For I believe he was real - whether Rabbi or Savior - but I rejoice in the efforts of souls who created a narrative that casts a potential hope for me. Now like Peter and Paul, I have to figure out, one day at a time, one event at a time, how to fulfill the best nature of my heart.

Merry Christmas to all of you. I wish you joy, harmony, and hope.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Post Reply