Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 13 Nov 2011, 21:01

Again, thanks for comments. Those are some interesting ways to look at it.

DennisonE
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by DennisonE » 10 Dec 2011, 01:14

Harold B. Lee while serving as president was asked at one time if he had seen Christ and said no. The only prophet after Joseph Smith that I know that is reported to have said he saw the Savior was Lorenzo Snow and the only record of that story comes through his granddaughter. Others, of course, could have seen Him but not publicly announced it. I have often wondered, however, what would happen to a prophet in our age that announced he had talked with God. I think it would cause great hostility and he might even wind up a martyr as Joseph Smith and other BofM and OT prophets. Maybe that is the reason for the silence.

TopBloke
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by TopBloke » 11 Dec 2011, 09:53

Have you's all forgotten the vision of Joseph.F.Smith - D&C 138.18 ,one of the great important visions & testomony of our time.
I absolutly love that vision..

Brown
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Brown » 11 Dec 2011, 11:36

TopBloke wrote:Have you's all forgotten the vision of Joseph.F.Smith - D&C 138.18 ,one of the great important visions & testomony of our time.
I absolutly love that vision..

I think the argument here is that J.F. Smith clearly stated that God showed him a vision. Wilford Woodruff clearly stated God showed him a vision of what would happen if they didn't stop polygamy. Then nobody has claimed a vision since. There have been "revelations" through spiritual promptings, and testimonies, but nobody mentions a direct and clear vision.

Every prophet has been rather clear and frank regarding direct visions and visits.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by SilentDawning » 11 Dec 2011, 15:08

What baffles me is that visions and visitations and supernaturality were very much a part of the LDS Church in its beginnings, and they typifiy the scriptures. But now that it has become an entrenched organization, we are not "allowed" to ask high ranking Apostles -- special witnesses -- if they have actually seen Christ. We must guess and speculate. Apostles must hint as Elder Scott did in the video the Church produced on the testimony of the Apostles. When he said "I know that Jesus lives" -- nodding his head knowingly, it is as if he is leading everyone to believe he has seen Christ, without being accountable for actually claiming it.

Stuff like that kind of hurts my testimony. How we are expected to believe all the grandiose claims about our beginnings, yet no one is allowed to talk about similar experiences in our day. It makes me wonder if they actually exist.
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 Dec 2011, 17:25

I've said this before, but I think it's important to be precise when we talk about this sort of thing.

Visions are mentioned in our scriptures, but they aren't "commonplace". Seriously, if you want to have an eye-opening experience, read our entire cannon and see how many people record visions. I think most of you would be surprised - and that's in records covering thousands of years and in cultures that didn't have problems accepting visions.

Then there are visitations: Um, almost none that aren't phrased in such a way that they absolutely had to be visitations and not visions. The brother of Jared, Moses on Mount Sinai, Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (the only instance in his mortal life, interestingly), Jesus appearing to the Nephites and . . . who else?

I'd like to have more visions and visitations reported in our day, but I'm realistic enough to believe that such events just don't happen much - when viewed through the lens of our recorded scriptures.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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wayfarer
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by wayfarer » 11 Dec 2011, 18:35

Ray Degraw wrote:I'd like to have more visions and visitations reported in our day, but I'm realistic enough to believe that such events just don't happen much - when viewed through the lens of our recorded scriptures.
if the mechanism of visions, visitations, and revelation is "in your mind and in your heart", and if according to doctrine, you cannot see god in the flesh with mortal eyes and live, then why do we need to think that a vision or visitation is anything other than a spiritual, mental event?
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 Dec 2011, 21:08

I probably should clarify my last comment:

If we are talking about "visions" only and defining them as broadly as possible, they happen quite regularly still. I know of LDS members who have had visions of some kind or another, and I don't question most of them. I've even had one moment where I might say I had a vision.

There are all kinds of visions, if we are talking about prophecy and "seeing the future". My own experience was like that - getting a flashing glimpse of what would happen in the Deep South if the people ever could let go of their racist viewpoints - both some members and lots of non-members. It was an amazing experience, and it was "visionary" in a way - but that's not what I meant.

I think those types of visions happen all the time still - but I didn't think that's what SD meant in his comment. When I say visions and visitations are relatively uncommon in our scriptures, I mean God appearing to someone and seeming to visit that person. Those are rare - and if they are rare in our scriptures, in times and cultures where they were accepted relatively easily, I understand why they are even rarer now in our modern, industrial, technological society and culture.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 11 Dec 2011, 21:38

Well, to anyone that doesn't the point of this post, the point I'm trying to make is that apart from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and other prophets and apostles in these last days, why don't we hear such things from President Monson or when President Hinckley was alive? Was it all considered too sacred?

Brown
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Re: Does President Monson see God or Jesus Christ?

Post by Brown » 11 Dec 2011, 22:13

The conclusion I draw is that most prophets only receive the same form of revelation that we all receive. Namely, promptings of the holy ghost. If God came down to talk to Pres. Monson, I am sure he'd let us know because it would be important.

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