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by DevilsAdvocate
12 Apr 2010, 08:50
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

"From 1985 to 1995 the Church membership grew from 5.9 million to 9.3 million or about a 58% increase. By comparison from 1999 to 2009 the membership grew from 10.75 million to 13.82 million or an increase of about 29%. So while it is technically true that the Church is still growing the rate of gr...
by DevilsAdvocate
09 Apr 2010, 15:48
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: "We are losing our brightest members"
Replies: 6
Views: 723

Re: "We are losing our brightest members"

We are losing too many members , but I simply have to disagree with the title. There are lots of flat-out brilliant members who aren't leaving - and some of the ones who are leaving aren't doing so because of how smart they are. Also, it's not just the stupid and uneducated and uninformed who are j...
by DevilsAdvocate
09 Apr 2010, 10:23
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

He said quietly & openly to me, "I can't for the world think of a reason why non-members would want to join our church. When you consider tithing, multiple callings, obedience to authority, temple restrictions, who would choose it ? Exactly. Unless you were raised in the church to believe this is t...
by DevilsAdvocate
08 Apr 2010, 17:36
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

A number of points, since organizaational theory and restructuring are part of my "professional expertise": 1) NEVER, and I mean never, use annual percentage growth stats to disparage growth. It simply is not a good statistical method. When the LDS Church went from 6 members to 100 members in less ...
by DevilsAdvocate
08 Apr 2010, 12:57
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

I'm responding to this quote from another thread but I think this issue is significant enough for a separate topic: If you look for the good in the church, you will find it, and make yourself happier in the process. There are many good things in the church too, and that's why it is growing, not shri...
by DevilsAdvocate
08 Apr 2010, 09:29
Forum: Spiritual Stuff
Topic: Faith in false concepts.
Replies: 28
Views: 2523

Re: Faith in false concepts.

I have faith the sun will rise in the morning. This is truly faith because it is an absolutely true concept or event. I have faith moon will disappear. This is not faith because it is a false concept. No amount of faith or belief will make it happen. It is delusion. So in my mind the trick to havin...
by DevilsAdvocate
06 Apr 2010, 13:22
Forum: Spiritual Stuff
Topic: Faith in false concepts.
Replies: 28
Views: 2523

Re: Faith in false concepts.

...is it impossible to have faith in a false doctrine? If you have faith in a false concept or doctrine to the point that you believe it is true, is it no longer faith but delusion. As far as I'm concerned faith is almost exactly the same thing as belief especially belief without much proof to supp...
by DevilsAdvocate
06 Apr 2010, 09:52
Forum: History and Doctrine Discussions
Topic: Joseph and Authorship
Replies: 67
Views: 5142

Re: Joseph and Authorship

Ray Degraw wrote: I have no desire to comment it on, curt. All I would have is pure speculation, and anything I say other than, "I think she probably was telling the truth," would be impugning her character. My own actual answer is, "I think she was telling the truth" - but I have no reason to give...
by DevilsAdvocate
01 Apr 2010, 14:06
Forum: History and Doctrine Discussions
Topic: Joseph and Authorship
Replies: 67
Views: 5142

Re: Joseph and Authorship

Two of the witnesses did claim that they saw the plates and the angel with their "spiritual eye." ...The witnesses were certainly of questionable mental stability. Or, if that seems to strong a charge, then at least gullibility ...As mentioned in an earlier post, Harris changed his religious affili...
by DevilsAdvocate
26 Mar 2010, 10:52
Forum: History and Doctrine Discussions
Topic: Joseph and Authorship
Replies: 67
Views: 5142

Re: Joseph and Authorship

One postee wrote that none of the witnesses to plates ever renounced their testimony of their experience, but I am not sure that is true. Maybe you're referring to the following comment that I made: All it would have taken is for one of these key witnesses to go to the newspapers and deny their tes...